Egypte ; Defensie aankopen/ opbouw materieel

Gestart door Harald, 28/08/2015 | 11:08 uur

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Thomasen op 09/10/2015 | 14:23 uur
Het is opvallend hoe made in Europe een comeback lijkt te maken in de MENA regio. Ondanks ons lastige export beleid.

De Amerikanen hebben het verbruid in de regio.

dudge

Citaat van: ARM-WAP op 09/10/2015 | 08:45 uur
Gingen de Duitsers er al niet meteen een deel van de hunne uitfaseren?
Kunnen de Egyptenaren daar aan de deur kloppen...
(met Groen-Links daar wordt dat ongetwijfeld ook interessant...)

Het artikel spreekt over Spaanse toestellen, ook Spanje gaat een deel direct doorverkopen.
Met 26 stuks die doorverkocht moeten worden, en daarnaast de noodzaak voor export orders, mag ik hopen dat hier prioriteit aan wordt gegeven, al raakt dat meer het A400M of Europese Def Ind. topic dan deze.

Het is opvallend hoe made in Europe een comeback lijkt te maken in de MENA regio. Ondanks ons lastige export beleid.

Zeewier

Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 08/10/2015 | 23:13 uur
Zeker en het zou geweldig zijn als ook, bijvoorbeeld, Damen in die regio eens een interessante order (ondersteund door de politiek) zou binnen sleuren zonder dat de rood/groene melkmuitjes weer eens standaard tegen zijn.
GroenLinks, Damen, Frankrijk, Duitsland, VAE... gewoon acepteren dat dit geopolitieke defensie-industrie op hoog niveau is waar wij geen rol in spelen. Wees daar soms ook blij om.

NL & Damen Shipyards kunnen beter rode cirkels zetten om de Marokkaanse en de Tunisische marines. Deze hebben beiden missile boats en fast attack crafts met ouderdom. Waarom deze landen? Omdat ze recht tegenover Spanje en Frankrijk liggen. Dan liggen andere westerse (Italiaanse) of Russische partners meer voor de hand. Algerije is min of meer al voorzien.

ARM-WAP

Citaat van: Harald op 08/10/2015 | 22:06 uur
Egypt is keen on getting the A400M   (volgende defensie aankoop !! ? )
Originele bericht/artikel : (in het spaans)
http://andaluciainformacion.es/andalucia/537976/airbus-recibe-de-egipto-el-primer-pedido-de-un-a400m-tras-el-accidente/
Gingen de Duitsers er al niet meteen een deel van de hunne uitfaseren?
Kunnen de Egyptenaren daar aan de deur kloppen...
(met Groen-Links daar wordt dat ongetwijfeld ook interessant...)

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

#26
Citaat van: Thomasen op 08/10/2015 | 23:09 uur
Het is in ieder geval goed voor onze industrie.

Zeker en het zou geweldig zijn als ook, bijvoorbeeld, Damen in die regio eens een interessante order (ondersteund door de politiek) zou binnen sleuren zonder dat de rood/groene melkmuitjes weer eens standaard tegen zijn.

dudge

Het is in ieder geval goed voor onze industrie.

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

#24
Citaat van: Thomasen op 08/10/2015 | 22:51 uur
Is het nu lachwekkend of zorgwekkend?


Vanuit het Nederlandse gezichtspunt zou het zorgwekkend moeten zijn aangevuld met een dosis jaloezie immers die camel jockeys zijn op weg naar een aanzienlijk capabele krijgsmacht en hier lopen we te mekkeren om 100 euro.

Even voor het gemak, Egypte: Bruto Binnenlands Product 272 miljard USD ‎(2013)



dudge


Harald

Egypt is keen on getting the A400M   (volgende defensie aankoop !! ? )

A news report from Spain said Egypt has indicated its desire to buy the Airbus A400M airlifter.

The report quoted Airbus Defence and Space executive Pilar Albiac-Murillo as the source of the news.

Egypt wants Airbus to deliver the aircraft as soon as possible. However, Airbus is unable to do so as other customers are eagerly awaiting for their turn as well.

http://alert5.com/2015/10/09/egypt-is-keen-on-getting-the-a400m/

Originele bericht/artikel : (in het spaans)
http://andaluciainformacion.es/andalucia/537976/airbus-recibe-de-egipto-el-primer-pedido-de-un-a400m-tras-el-accidente/

Sparkplug

Egypt has yet to select helicopters for Mistrals

Peter Dunai, Budapest and Jeremy Binnie, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly | 5 October 2015

Egypt has not ordered the naval version of the Ka-52 attack helicopter for its Mistral-class helicopter carriers, Sergei Chemezov, general director of Russia's Rostec defence holding company, has confirmed.

"If Egypt still decides to acquire the Mistrals, then we will of course offer our helicopters because they were adapted and created precisely for this ship," Chemezov told reporters on 30 September.

His comments came after France confirmed on 23 September that Egypt would buy the two Mistrals, which were built for the Russian Navy under a deal that had to be cancelled due to the imposition of EU sanctions on Moscow over the conflict in Ukraine.

The sale of up to 50 Ka-52 helicopters to Egypt was revealed in August when the Research and Production Corporation Precision Systems and Instruments (SPC CPR) released a report saying it would supply 50 OES-52 electro-optic sights to equip Egyptian Ka-52 helicopters.

After France announced the Mistral sale, a Russian military-diplomatic source told the TASS news agency that Egypt had ordered 50 Ka-52 attack helicopters. "If Egypt deems it necessary, the Ka-52K ship-based version will be supplied," the source said, suggesting Egypt did not order the helicopters specifically for the Mistrals.

The most obvious difference between the Ka-52K and the original version is that the former has folding rotor blades and stub wings so it takes up less deck/hangar space.

Meanwhile, Russia's Radio-Electronic Technologies Concern (KRET) is offering Egypt the 5P28 Pobeditelj electronic protection system that it was going to fit to the Russian Mistrals, while the United Instrument Manufacturing Corp (OPK) is proposing to adapt the command-and-control system it was going to install on the vessels.

http://www.janes.com/article/55024/egypt-has-yet-to-select-helicopters-for-mistrals
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

Harald

Egypt, France In Discussions Over NH90 Helicopter Buy

Negotiations were at an advanced stage as of October 1 between France, helicopter consortium NHIndustries and Egypt for the sale of a significant number of NH90 medium helicopters. The order would be a follow-on to recent sales of French armament to the Arab country, especially corvettes, frigates and landing ships—all compatible with the NH90.

Egypt has not issued any formal request for proposals for the multi-role helicopter. Nevertheless, an industry source confirmed to AIN that the ongoing discussions "are not for just a couple of helicopters." A spokesman for the French ministry of defense said he had no information on the potential helicopter deal.

Saudi Arabia is believed to be funding Egypt's latest weapons purchases, something France's Le Monde newspaper has reported in detail. One industry source said the use of Saudi resources is "obvious."

The customer may choose between the tactical transport (TTH) and naval (NFH) versions of the NH90, or a mix of the two, a source suggested. The NFH can operate from Gowind-class corvettes or FREMM frigates, and both variants can be based on a Mistral-class landing ship, which manufacturer DCNS describes as an amphibious assault ship with an integrated command post. The NFH would provide anti-surface and anti-submarine protection of landing ships.

The Sikorsky Seahawk represents a potential competitor for the Egyptian requirement, but Teal Group analyst Richard Aboulafia thought it was unlikely that Egypt would opt for U.S. equipment. "Given the post-Arab Spring politics of the region, I'd expect Egypt to go with a European supplier," he said. "Since France has been commercially quite aggressive here, Egypt will likely go with NFH90s, or, if they want something less expensive and less capable, (Airbus Helicopters) H225Ms."

Russian candidates like the Kamov Ka-27/29 and the Mi-17 are seen as relatively old technology or not fit for operations aboard ships. Egypt recently ordered Ka-52 attack helicopters, also believed to be intended for use on landing ships. In addition to protecting the Suez Canal, a strategic asset for Egypt, the newly purchased helicopters may help the country support Saudi Arabia's military campaign in Yemen.

Late last month, the French Navy took delivery of its 15th NH90 naval variant, the first to be delivered in final radar configuration. The helicopter is euipped with "an advanced sonar for improved submarine detection and classification." A digital map generator is intended to ease mission preparation and execution.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2015-10-05/egypt-france-discussions-over-nh90-helicopter-buy

Huzaar1

Ik vul dat in door het volgende

- ze hebben er w.s genoeg van
- ze hebben een voertuig nodig wat enige tijd blootgesteld kan worden aan vij. Vuur zodat de haatbaard bij het doel kan komen voordat het tot stikstand wordt gebracht. Wieltjes zijn te kwetsbaar.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion" US secmindef - Jed Babbin"

Elzenga

Citaat van: Huzaar1 op 24/09/2015 | 11:16 uur
Met welk westers materieel kunnen ze dan prima uit de voeten?
Zo ongeveer elk westers spul wat ze in handen krijgen gaat na verloop van tijd stuk omdat het veel onderhoud en specialismes vergt om te bedienen en gebruiken. Iets waar Russisch materieel overigens total geen last van heeft en door elke boerenkinkel moet kunnen worden gebruikt met zo min mogelijk onderhoud.
Dat neem ik ook waar ja. Maar gaat om Humvees, M16, M113s, MRAPs, soms een Abraham ed. Opvallend is dat ze geregeld pantservoertuigen..M113s en BMPs gebruiken voor hun zelfmoordaanslagen...klaarblijkelijk zijn die voor hun dagelijkse oorlogsvoering minder bruikbaar..althans zo vul ik dat in...

Huzaar1

Citaat van: Elzenga op 28/08/2015 | 15:32 uur
Dat we dat in het verleden hebben gedaan wreekt zich vind ik nu...want IS en soortgelijke strijdgroepen kunnen prima uit de voeten met veel van het materiaal uit het Westen, Rusland en elders en hebben daar voorraden waar je u tegen zegt (en wij hier in NL slechts van kunnen dromen).

Met welk westers materieel kunnen ze dan prima uit de voeten?
Zo ongeveer elk westers spul wat ze in handen krijgen gaat na verloop van tijd stuk omdat het veel onderhoud en specialismes vergt om te bedienen en gebruiken. Iets waar Russisch materieel overigens total geen last van heeft en door elke boerenkinkel moet kunnen worden gebruikt met zo min mogelijk onderhoud.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion" US secmindef - Jed Babbin"

Harald

Why Is Egypt Buying Two Orphaned Mistral Class Aircraft Carriers From France?

The Russian-French Mistral Class helicopter carrier saga has been a long and rocky one. Originally the two amphibious assault ships were built for Russia, with many Russian combat systems installed, but France denied delivery after Russia seized Crimea a year and a half ago. Since then, many potential customers have been identified for the ships, but Egypt appears to be where these powerful ships will call home in the not so distant future.

The Mistral Class are pretty amazing ships. Not because they offer any sort of new capabilities that other amphibious flattops don't, but because they offer a lot of capability for their price, costing around $700 million each. They also have much lower their operating costs when compared with say an American Wasp Class LHD, which only enhances their reputation for value.

With this in mind, many navies around the globe looked at buying the orphaned ships, many of which are not known for carrier operations or for large navies for that matter. Canada, NATO, Brazil, India, Vietnam, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Singapore and even China and the U.S. have been floated or rumored as potential buyers. In the end it appears that France has brokered a deal with Egypt for both the ships.

France has become a more heavily favored nation for Egyptian trade and arms deals in recent years as it has been in the past. The el-Sisi government has pivoted away from the U.S. as its main strategic partner in the region as the Obama Administration has greatly chilled the Egypt-U.S. relationship because of the military backed el-Sisi coup that seized power from the democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood. As a result, F-16 and other arms deliveries were temporarily embargoed to Egypt, which among other things, disrupted the once strong relationship between the two countries. In Washington's absence, Egypt has turned to France and Russia for arms sales, with major orders being penned worth billions of dollars for Dassault Rafale and MiG-29 fighters recently.

Meanwhile, Egypt has been engaged in a deepening counter-terror fight against extremist elements, namely those aligned with ISIS. Geographically speaking, threats are emanating primarily from around the Sinai Peninsula, which Egypt worries could one day endanger the Suez Canal, and from the western border with Libya, which is embroiled in a full-on civil war and teaming with Islamic militants.

Even with the rising spectre of Islamic extremism looming over Saharan and portions of sub-Saharan Africa, it is not exactly clear what Egypt plans on doing with two amphibious helicopter carriers. These powerful ships could be used as seabases of sorts, parking them off the coast of trouble spots on the Mediterranean, Red Sea, and Arabian Sea, but that would signal a massive expeditionary shift in Egypt's foreign policy. Although maybe this shift has been underway already, with Sunni Arab states openly fighting Iranian backed Houthi Rebels in Yemen. In fact, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have joined forces to a certain degree militarily to attempt to shape the region as they see fit. This is known as the Cairo Declaration, and it was signed with little western media attention this summer. The addition of a pair of aircraft carriers and amphibous assault ships could provide a counter-balance against increasing Iranian influene in the region.

If anything else, the purchase is a major sign that Egypt plans on becoming much more active when it comes to regional military operations than it has in the past.

Also of interest is that these ships were originally meant to be delivered to what is becoming Egpyt's prime global ally, Russia. Russia, who was denied purchase of the vessels, has stated that it will build its own ships of similar capability. But Russia doesn't necessarily have the shipbuilding ability to do so. Even though Russia has in-depth knowledge of the Mistral Class and its systems, building an entire one alone, without even a working example to go off of may be troublesome. Additionally, Russian sub-systems were never gutted from these ships after the original deal was cancelled and they remain an integral part of these ships. These systems will need servicing and upgrades, and sailors will need to be trained on them throughout the ship's life. In other words, Egypt will need some cooporation with Russia when it comes to operating these ships.

While it is speculative in nature at this point in time, all this may lead to a unique situation where Egypt allows Russian accesses to their Mistral Class ships, and joint use of them for common foreign policy interests. Operations such as the one Russia is undertaking now in Syria comes to mind. This would also allow Russia to gain further knowelege of the ships design and operations.

With two examples in the hands of a close ally, Russia and China could work together to build a similar class. China could use such a capability and is in need of aircraft carrier design know-how. Additionally, they have gone down similar "unconventional" routes before in order to obtain new naval capabilities. Namely buying the rusting hulk of an aircraft from Russia for use as a Casino under a shell company before rebuilding it into their first fixed-wing aircraft carrier, the Liaoning. The Zubr Class hovercraft deal is even a better example.

In the end such a deal would benefit Egypt, Russia and possibly China, while at the same time allowing Russia to work around the embargo that left the two Mistral Class ships on the liquidation block in the first place to a certain degree.

It is reported that both Mistral Class ships will be delivered in March to Egypt after a force of 400 Egyptian Navy sailors are trained to operate the ships. The total price of the deal is said to have been worth $1.062 billion dollars. That may be less than what Russia was going to pay for the two ships, but just keeping them in port was costing the French between about $1 million and $5 million a month depending on who you ask, and that number was only rising as the ships weapons systems and sensors would need upgrades and its mechanical systems deeper maintenance from disuse.

It will be fascinating to see how these powerful Swiss Army Knife-like ships will change the balance of power, and even the perception of naval capabilities in the region. And it will be especially interesting to see how much involvement Russia will have with their capabilities and operation.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/why-is-egypt-buying-two-orphaned-mistral-class-aircraft-1732595299