Vervanging US tankvliegtuigen

[Elzenga]

Een hoop manipulatief bla bla... Boeing weet ook gerust wel dat zij de order krijgt. Te groot en strategisch belangrijk immers om die aan een Europese fabrikant te gunnen. De eerste keer ging het niet voor niets mis en werd de Europese keuze terug gefloten. Northrop Grumman heeft zich nu juist uit het vervolgproject teruggetrokken omdat Boeing bij het nieuwe eisenpakket zou worden bevoordeeld. Boeing heeft volgens mij gewoon geen trek in het fixed price contract en probeert nu haar supporters in de politiek in het Congres op deze wijze verder te mobiliseren.

[Lex]

Boeing source: We may not bid for KC-X
   
Boeing is considering not bidding for the Air Force's KC-X tanker contract, a company source said Friday.

That would leave Europe's EADS — which earlier this year had threatened its own pullout — as the sole bidder for the multibillion-dollar prize.

CEO Jim McNerney and other executives are privately debating whether their company can even win, much less make a profit, on the fixed-price contract, one senior Boeing executive said.

"Is it conceivable that we wouldn't bid?" the executive said. "We are proud of the fleet and want it to win the contract so the Air Force keeps flying our planes. Your heart says you have to be part of it, but a CEO's job is to make sure that the heart doesn't make a decision the head can't live with."

Boeing spokesman Damien Mills insisted May 13 that the firm will bid.

But Boeing supporters have long complained that illegal subsidies would lower EADS' bid price, and company officials have said for several weeks that the Pentagon appears to have shifted requirements to favor the European firm.

Earlier this year, DoD officials — eager to avoid a sole-source award to Boeing in the wake of Northrop Grumman's withdrawal — delayed the bidding deadline 60 days to allow EADS to bid. DoD also allowed the European firm to enter the contest without a U.S. firm as a partner.

Pentagon officials say they have changed neither the requirements nor the way the bids will be evaluated.

"Jim doesn't want to be in a position that we are going to bid a losing bid," the Boeing executive said. "It gets difficult when you're dealing with a competitor who has flat-out said on several occasions that they're going to underbid us. How can they do that if the list price of their plane is higher than the list on our plane? Because they are subsidized and we're a for-profit company, so the question we're asking is: How do we compete against four governments?"

The average cost of a Boeing 767-200ER is $133 million, of an Airbus A330-200F, $194.8 million, according to Teal Group aviation analyst Richard Aboulafia.

The executive said Boeing has not arrived at a decision. He said raising the prospect of sitting out was not a negotiating tactic.

On May 13, Pentagon officials said that they have heard nothing from Boeing about leaving the competition.

Subsidy Scuffle
Boeing executives and its supporters say Airbus, which has garnered more than half of the commercial jet market in recent years, has been powered by tens of billions of dollars in subsidies over four decades. The World Trade Organization recently resolved a 2009 lawsuit filed by the U.S. government, finding Airbus guilty of using illegal subsidies to win contracts with predatory pricing. Europe has countersued, claiming Boeing benefits from research and development tax credits.

On May 13, two Republican lawmakers from Kansas, Sen. Sam Brownback and Rep. Todd Tiahrt, introduced legislation in the U.S. House and Senate that would order the Pentagon officials who will weigh the KC-X bids to factor in the startup subsidies EADS received for its A330. Tiahrt said he estimates the subsidies to be worth about $5 million per airplane.

The Pentagon says it will not take the WTO ruling into account because EADS plans to appeal, and waiting for the outcome could add yet more years of delay to the tanker effort.

Dubbing the proposed legislation "The Boeing Bill," EADS spokesman Guy Hicks called it "one more attempt to avoid competing on the merits of the tanker."

Analysts Respond

A financial analyst said a prudent Boeing would consider all options.

"If Boeing can't make a fair return for their investment, then they shouldn't do it," said Ron Epstein of Banc of America. "Shareholders would rather see Boeing cover its cost of capital than win an unprofitable contract. If EADS is going to bid below their cost of capital to subsidize our military, great, they should do it."

But Aboulafia is skeptical: "It would be a very bold move if true — possibly too bold."

Analyst David Berteau of the Center for Strategic and International Studies said he doubts that Congress will be able to write effective legislation in time to affect the competition.

He also said Boeing's threat is unlikely to sway Pentagon officials who have said that they "prefer a competition, but they'll move forward with only one" bidder.

USAF News,
Posted : Friday May 14, 2010 18:55:38 EDT

[Elzenga]

Het is alleen de vraag waarom de UAC voor de Il-96/Il-98 gekozen heeft.
Zowel de Boeing als de Airbus zijn 2-motorige vliegtuigen, de Il-96 is een 4-motorig vliegtuig.
Dan kan de Il-96 nog zo veel goedkoper zijn dan de Airbus/Boeing, het brandstofverbruik van 2 extra motoren op 180 toestellen tikt lekker snel aan.
Mijn inziens had de UAC 'meer' kans gehad wanneer zij met (bijv) de Tu-204 waren verschenen.

Het vliegbereik van de Il-96/98 is daarentegen wel weer aanzienlijk verder dan de Tu-204. Het zal dus net zijn wat de eisen zijn..Een puntje wat ik wel minder vind is dat van de Il-96/98 er niet echt veel zijn verkocht...

[Sneeuwbaard]

Het is alleen de vraag waarom de UAC voor de Il-96/Il-98 gekozen heeft.
Zowel de Boeing als de Airbus zijn 2-motorige vliegtuigen, de Il-96 is een 4-motorig vliegtuig.
Dan kan de Il-96 nog zo veel goedkoper zijn dan de Airbus/Boeing, het brandstofverbruik van 2 extra motoren op 180 toestellen tikt lekker snel aan.
Mijn inziens had de UAC 'meer' kans gehad wanneer zij met (bijv) de Tu-204 waren verschenen.

[Enforcer]

Russian State Firm: We'll Bid for USAF Tanker

Russian state-owned aerospace group United Aircraft Corp. plans to bid for a U.S. Air Force tanker contract, teaming up with a U.S. partner, a lawyer representing UAC said March 19.
"They're going to announce Monday [March 22] a joint venture with an American company to bid on the tanker program," attorney John Kirkland said.

Defense News, Published: 19 Mar 2010 18:00

Politieke spelletjes. Rusland laat zien dat ze meetellen én laat zo direct zien dat in het democratische USA zodirect de zaken zo aangepast worden dat het Russische bod geen kans maakt. Kortom,  de USA wordt dan als hypocriet tentoongesteld. Makkelijke politieke winst voor Rusland.

[Elzenga]

Ik denk dat dit is uitgesloten...dat de Amerikanen op deze schaal Russisch materiaal kopen...

Het is idd onwaarschijnlijk dat dit zal gebeuren. Maar wat is er mis met het feit, dat Rusland een bod wil uitbrengen?

ach als de Russen geld teveel hebben voor zoiets, moeten ze dat maar doen......ik heb zo'n licht vermoeden dat hier wel eens een politieke agenda achter kan zitten...Kan Poetin weer eens "aantonen" hoezeer Rusland nog steeds buiten de "Westerse" boot wordt gehouden. Al geeft het de fabrikant natuurlijk ook wel weer wat gratis publiciteit zo.

[Lex]

Ik denk dat dit is uitgesloten...dat de Amerikanen op deze schaal Russisch materiaal kopen...

Het is idd onwaarschijnlijk dat dit zal gebeuren. Maar wat is er mis met het feit, dat Rusland een bod wil uitbrengen?

[Elzenga]

Waarom die moeite?
Alsof de USAF Russische toestellen gaat kopen...

Waarom niet? De Russen zijn zelf bezig met aankopen buiten het eigen land. Ik zie het probleem niet.

Ik denk dat dit is uitgesloten...dat de Amerikanen op deze schaal Russisch materiaal kopen...Is de voormalige Koude Oorlog nog veels te aanwezig voor...en Rusland wordt gezien als concurrent blok en mogelijk nieuwe vijand (of zal bij verschillende lieden in het Pentagon dat nog steeds zijn...idem in Rusland zelf).

[Lex]

Waarom die moeite?
Alsof de USAF Russische toestellen gaat kopen...

Waarom niet? De Russen zijn zelf bezig met aankopen buiten het eigen land. Ik zie het probleem niet.

[IPA NG]

Waarom die moeite?
Alsof de USAF Russische toestellen gaat kopen...

[Lex]

Russian State Firm: We'll Bid for USAF Tanker

Russian state-owned aerospace group United Aircraft Corp. plans to bid for a U.S. Air Force tanker contract, teaming up with a U.S. partner, a lawyer representing UAC said March 19.
"They're going to announce Monday [March 22] a joint venture with an American company to bid on the tanker program," attorney John Kirkland said.
Kirkland said the bid would be based on the Ilyushin Il-96, a four-engine airliner.
Asked about the UAC announcement, DoD spokewoman Cheryl Irwin said, "We welcome all qualified bidders." Asked whether the Russian firm was qualified, she said, "I don't know."
Boeing is the only company that has announced it will bid for the $35 billion contract to supply the Air Force with 179 aerial refueling tankers.
EADS, the parent of Boeing's arch-rival Airbus, said it was considering a bid for the contract after the Pentagon signaled a flexible deadline to accommodate the European aerospace giant.
Just last week EADS was forced to withdraw from the bidding after its lead partner, U.S. defense contractor Northrop Grumman, refused to compete, alleging the requirements unfairly were skewed toward Boeing's smaller aircraft.
UAC was launched in 2006 under the administration of then-president Vladimir Putin.
The UAC move Friday coincided with talks in Moscow between U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Putin, the Russian prime minister.
Putin lamented that bilateral trade had plummeted $20 billion in 2009 to $16 billion as a result of the economic crisis, although he said the economic potential of the U.S.-Russia partnership remained high.
"I appreciate you raising the economic relationship because we are committed to broadening and deepening ties between our two economies, our business leaders and investors," Clinton said.

Defense News, Published: 19 Mar 2010 18:00

[Elzenga]

Dit lijkt me een zinloze exercitie voor EADS...Ook de regering Obama zit op de lijn van voorkeur voor eigen producten. Laat EADS nu eerst de A400M op een goede wijze in de markt zetten. En zorgen dat daar geen verdere vertragingen en problemen gaan optreden.

[Lex]

Source: EADS Seeking New Tanker-Bid Partner

The U.S. Air Force's $35 billion KC-X competition may not end up being a sole-source competition. It appears that EADS is looking to buy time to find a new partner to bid in the fight against tanker rival Boeing.

"We're hearing that EADS has approached DoD and asked for an extension to the tanker bid submittal deadline," one congressional aide said today.
The deadline is in mid-May.

Meanwhile, Pentagon Acquisition chief Ashton Carter dodged numerous questions from reporters on the matter during a March 12 press conference at the Pentagon. All Carter would say is that the Pentagon "values the contribution of European industry to the choices that we can make as a department." He said that although the Pentagon doesn't have "an indication of any additional bidders, [DoD] is happy to have a competition."

Carter had earlier in the day refused to talk about the matter earlier during an interview with Defense News.
EADS North America officials also refused to comment on the matter, with company spokesman Guy Hicks saying March 12, "We don't comment on any communications between [EADS] and our customers."

One senior EADS official said earlier this week that he had serious doubts the company has enough time to find a new U.S. partner that could handle a $35 billion deal, such as Lockheed Martin, L-3 Communications or Raytheon.
However, Raytheon issued a cryptic statement March 12 when asked whether company officials were in talks with EADS about a tanker partnership.
"We have the technology and capabilities to support the tanker program in a number of ways, but we have to refer [inquiries on the matter] to EADS," a company spokeswoman said.
Lockheed and L-3 were unavailable for comment at press time.

USAF MOVING AHEAD
Meanwhile, Air Force Secretary Michael Donley and service Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz told lawmakers during a March 10 House Appropriations defense subcommittee hearing that they intend to move ahead with the competition as planned.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said later in the week that the Pentagon will have to sharpen its pencils when negotiating with Boeing to ensure that the company doesn't try to use the de facto sole-source bid to gouge taxpayers on its 767-based bid, which is reportedly much cheaper than EADS' Airbus A330-based bid.

Northrop and EADS say that the final KC-X request for proposals (RfP) emphasized cost and other factors that "heavily weigh in favor of the smaller, less capable Boeing tanker," according to a March 8 statement from EADS North America Chairman Ralph Crosby. "Northrop Grumman's analysis of the RfP reaffirmed those concerns and prompted the decisions not to bid."

Despite recent developments, several analysts agree that time may have run out for EADS.
"Finding someone else would be tough to do unless they have already done the ground work" to establish a brand new KC-X partner, said Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments Senior Fellow Mark Gunzinger on March 10.

Richard Aboulafia of the Teal Group was even more dubious, saying in a March 9 e-mail when asked whether he thought the Air Force might grant EADS extra time to put together a new tanker partnership.
"Hell, no," Aboulafia wrote. "EADS today said they were withdrawing - period."

Defense News,
Published: 12 Mar 2010 15:46 EST

[Lex]

Sarkozy, Brown Criticize Pentagon Over Tanker Bid

LONDON - French President Nicolas Sarkozy criticized the United States on March 12 over bidding rules for a tanker jet contract, saying it was not the way for Washington to treat its European allies.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown added he was "disappointed" at the changing of rules in favor of U.S. aerospace giant Boeing, expected to win a multibillion-dollar contract to build an aerial refueling tanker plane for the U.S. Air Force.

"I admit that I did not appreciate this decision," Sarkozy said after talks with Brown. "These are methods which are not good for the partners of the United States, which is a great nation with which we are close and friends with."
Added Brown: "I too am disappointed about the American decision."

Boeing is poised to win the $35 billion (26 billion euro) contract to build the new refueling tanker for the U.S. Air Force after Northrop Grumman and European partner EADS dropped their joint offer.

European officials and EADS, which owns French-based plane maker Airbus, charged that the Pentagon altered bidding rules for the contract in order to favor Boeing's all-American offer over the European bid.

The European Commission has protested and a German minister has accused the United States of protectionism, warning that Berlin will take up the issue at the political level and at the World Trade Organization.

AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 12 Mar 2010 10:07

[Sandgroper]

France has vowed to retaliate against the United States for allegedly shutting Europe's aviation giant EADS out of a $50bn (£33.4bn) defence contract, warning of potential damage to the Atlantic alliance.
EADS had agreed to assemble the A330 tanker in Alabama, and half the jobs would have been in the US, but that was not enough to overcome deeper – if unstated – concerns about the role of rival powers in US defence procurement. EADS is perceived in Washington as a tool of French foreign policy, despite efforts by current chief Louis Gallois to tone down its Gallic image.

Mwah, volgens mij is (Ling Temco) Vought, de producent van o.a. de Multi Rocket Launch System ook in Franse handen.  En dat schijnt geen probleem te zijn.  De Britse defensie industrie heeft ook nog wat 'vingers in de Amerikaanse pap te brokkelen' en is ook geen probleem.

Wat zal de Franse reactie zijn?  Krijgen alle Europese JSF tobbers een mooie Rafale aanbieding?