Russia in talks on buying French warship

[dudge]

Stevige oppositie. Logisch ook, deze deal zal de nationale trots en status van de Russen gekrenkt hebben.

[Harald]

Problemen ??

French Warship for Russia 'Won't Work in Cold' - Minister

(Source: RIA Novosti; published January 26, 2013)

MOSCOW --- Two amphibious assault ships bought for the Russian Navy from France in a 1.2 billion euro deal will not be able to operate in temperatures below seven degrees centigrade, Russia's Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin admitted on Saturday, in critical comments about the contract.

"It's very odd that ships for offloading a landing force, floating in our latitudes won't work in temperatures below seven degrees," said Rogozin, who has special responsibilities for the defense industry, in a meeting of the Academy of Military Science on Saturday.

"Maybe they thought we're going to undertake special operations in Africa but I doubt that's going to happen," he added. He did not elaborate on why the ships would not work in cool temperatures. It was also unclear whether he meant plus seven degrees or minus seven, as Russian-speakers often leave out the word for minus when they assume it is clear which side of freezing they are talking about.

Russia signed the 1.2 billion euro deal in June 2011 for two of the Mistral ships, which will carry helicopters to support landings by marines. The first of the ships is due for delivery in 2014.

Rogozin was appointed to his current post only in December 2011.

The first Mistral is due to be deployed in Russia's Pacific Fleet, based in the port of Vladivostok, which is ice-free all year round but still experiences months of severe winter cold. The second is due to be deployed with the Northern Fleet, which also has ice-free bases, due to the Gulf Stream, but also experience very cold temperatures for several months a year.

It is the second time this week that the Mistral deal has come under fire from a senior defense official. On Thursday, Military-Industrial Commission Deputy Head Ivan Kharchenko described the deal to buy the ships as "absurd," saying the deal had inflicted harm on the Russian shipbuilding industry.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/142073/french-mistral-ship-%27won%27t-work-in-cold%27%3A-russia.html

[Harald]

Russia Drops Plans to Build Two Mistral Class Ships – Paper

MOSCOW --- The Russian Defense Ministry has decided to abandon plans for construction of two Mistral class amphibious assault ships under the French license in Russia, business daily Vedomosti said on Friday citing a government source.

Russia and France signed a $1.2-billion contract for two French-built Mistral class ships, including the transfer of sensitive technology, in June 2011.

The first ship, the Vladivostok, is being built at a DCNS shipyard in Saint-Nazaire and should be delivered in 2014, while the second, the Sevastopol, is scheduled for delivery in 2015.

Two more ships were expected to be 80% built in Russia, 20% in France.

However, Russian shipbuilders and many navy experts have always been skeptical about the military necessity to deploy four ships of this class with the Russian Navy, the paper said.

In addition, the domestic construction of the two ships would cost Russia approximately the same amount of money as the French contract, while their future upkeep would lay a heavy burden on the defense budget, according to defense industry sources.

The decision has been made following the recent reshuffle in the Russian top military brass which saw the dismissal of Anatoly Serdyukov from the post of defense minister and his replacement by former emergencies minister Sergei Shoigu, who immediately took the course on streamlining defense expenditures.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 personnel.

The French-built ships are expected to be assigned to Russia's Pacific Fleet.

The Russian Defense Ministry has not yet commented on the Vedomosti report.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/141234/russia-said-to-drop-plans-to-build-mistral-ships.html

[Ace1]

Ghibka 3M-47 naval turret mount, air defense missile system

(Also known as 3M47 Gibka, 9K310, 9M310, 9M313, Igla-1, Igla-M, SA-16, SA-N-10 Gimlet)



The 3M-47 Ghibka turret was designed by Altair Naval Radio Electronics Scientific Research Institute and is manufactured by the Ratep Joint Stock Company.

Ghibka 3M-47 (3M47 Gibka) Turret Mount is intended for guidance and remote automated launching of IGLA type missiles to provide protection of surface ships with displacement of 200 tons and over against attacks of anti-ship missiles, aircraft and helicopters in close-in area..

The turret mount utilizes information from ship's radars. The missiles are equipped with homing head with optical tracking (passive) and artifical thermal noise detector. The system is design to resist natural (background) and artificial jamming conditions. The turret mount is equipped with 9M39 and 9M342 anti-aircraft guided missiles.

To date, 3M-47 Ghibka is installed on Project 21630 "Buyan" class corvettes, Project 21631 "Buyan-M" class missile corvettes and will be installed on the future Mistral type LHD for the Russian Navy.

Variants:
Version 1 with 4 SAM
Version 2 with 8 SAM

Technical Data
Back to top
Composition
The Ghibka 3M-47 system comprises:
Shipborne turret mount:
- Four to eight 9M39 missiles or 9M342 missiles
- Support-turning device
- Optical-electronic device
Control Module:
- Automated operator workstation
- Electronic equipment unit to control driving gears
- Power supply system

9M39 missiles (SA-18 Igla)
The 9M39 missile employs an IR guidance system using proportional convergence logic. The new seeker offers better protection against electro-optical jammers; the probability of kill against an unprotected fighter is estimated at 30-48%, and the use of IRCM jammers only degrades this to 24-30%.
9M342 missiles (SA-24 Grinch Iglas-S)
The effectiveness of the 9M342 missile against air targets is attributed to the increase weight of the explosive in the missile's warhead and to the impact/proximity fuze enabling the missile to kill the target both in the event of a direct hit and when it passes at a distance of up to 1.5 m from the target. The target engagement has increased to 6 km compared with the 5.2 km of the Igla (SA-16 / SA-18) system.
Operation
The turret is remotely operated and can be steered towards targets detected by the Positiv, Furke or Fregat naval radar systems. Final aiming is achieved at the control module through a TV sighting system. According to constructor specifications, the visual detection range of an aircraft through the control module is 12 to 15 Km.

Specifications
Type
Short-range shipborne surface-to-air missile system
Operators
Russia
Visual detection range at the control module
12 to 15 Km
Guidance sector (in degrees)
Azimuth: +150 to -150 | Elevation: 0 to 60
Number of simultaneously engaged targets
1
Firing mode
Single | Salvo
Number of launch modules
Version 1: 2 | Version 2: 4
Number of SAM per launch module
2
SAM Type
Igla (9M39) | Igla-S (9M342)
Reaction time
< 8 seconds
Manual loading time for 1 module by 1 man
< 3 minutes
Turret mount weight (with 2 launch modules)
< 650 Kg







http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=529

[andré herc]

DCNS continues BPC design modifications for Russia
2012/07/17

DCNS is supplying two BPC-type projection and command vessels to Russia under a contract that came into effect at the end of 2011. Three of these vessels are already in service with the French Navy. The design modifications needed to adapt the BPC concept to Russia's specific requirements are progressing as planned.

The design modifications are being conducted in two phases. The first phase ended in April 2012 with the successful completion of the Preliminary Design Review. Detailed design studies were launched immediately afterwards, and this second phase is scheduled for completion in September 2012.

Russia's requirements include modifying the BPC design to accommodate Kamov helicopters and other Russian equipment (excluding weapon systems). The vessels also need to be modified to operate under extreme cold, with higher electrical power availability to de-ice part of the flight deck. All the user interfaces and onboard signage also need to be localised into Russian.

While the design modifications are being finalised, construction of hull blocks for the first of Russia's two BPCs has begun at the STX shipyard in Saint Nazaire. The first 100-tonne hull block will be delivered in September 2012 and laid down in early 2013, marking the beginning of block assembly in the shipbuilding dock.

Russia's OSK shipyards will participate in block construction for the two vessels as a subcontractor to STX, building twelve hull blocks for the aft of the ships.

The first BPC is scheduled for delivery in 2014, three years after the contract came into effect. The second will be delivered in 2015.

The contract calls for the delivery to Russia of two BPC-type vessels along with associated services including initial logistics, training, and technology transfers. DCNS is prime contractor for BPC construction and has responsibility for the integration of the ship's operations management and communications systems. STX France is building the ships under subcontract to DCNS.

The BPC concept was co-designed by DCNS and STX France to deliver inherently multirole vessels meeting the needs of many navies and ideal for a wide range of civilian and military missions.

With a length of 199 metres, a displacement of 22,000 tonnes and a speed in excess of 18 knots, the BPC offers a global projection capability for troops and materiel, including heavy helicopters and landing craft, as well as ample capacity as a hospital or evacuation vessel for large- scale humanitarian missions. The design also features electric propulsion using azimuth pods and high- level automation compatible with a complement of just 170, while a high-performance communications suite makes the type ideal for the naval force command vessel role.

The first two ships of this type, Mistral and Tonnerre, were built by DCNS and STX France and delivered to the French Navy in 2006 and 2007 respectively. France's third BPC, Dixmude, ordered by the French defence procurement agency in 2009, was delivered by DCNS and STX France on 3 January 2012, three months ahead of the contract schedule.

http://en.dcnsgroup.com/2012/07/17/dcns-continues-bpc-design-modifications-for-russia/

[andré herc]

MOSCOW, September 7 (RIA Novosti)

Russia will sign a contract with France for the third and fourth Mistral-class amphibious assault ships before the end of this year, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said on Wednesday.

"I believe we should complete the negotiating process and have these contracts signed before the end of the year," he said.

The two new warships will be built in Russia, he added.

Russia is also buying related technology and has two crews being trained in France, the minister said.

Russia and France signed a $1.7 billion (1.2 bln euro) contract in June on two French-built Mistral class amphibious assault ships for the Russian Navy, which includes the transfer of sensitive technologies.

The helicopter carriers are due to enter service with the Northern and the Pacific fleets in 2014 and 2015.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 personnel.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20110907/166505178.html

[Elzenga]

Inderdaad...en hoe komen de Chinezen ook al weer aan hun S-70's?!....ja datzelfde China dat in de VS steeds meer als een nieuwe vijand wordt gezien. Maar ja ze moeten wel daar...met zo'n ontzettend belabberde economie hebben verschillende politici en hun sponsors in de (defensie)industrie beiden genoeg reden om vijandbeelden flink op te poetsen of desnoods te creëren. Het is een oeroud recept....en het zal ook deze keer weer van stal worden gehaald...met alle gevolgen van dien....en kosten.

[ARM-WAP]

Idd... en dan weer de reactie van de Amerikanen...
"U.S. congresswoman says Russian-French Mistral deal threatens U.S. security"
Het hangt er maar vanaf hoe je zulke aan- en verkopen bekijkt.
Voor de US is het "logisch" dat ze surplus F-16's aan super lage prijzen verpatsen (zodat concurrenten als de Gripen geen kans maken) aan Roemenen, Polen enz...
En wie (be)dreigen deze verkopen dan?

Ik begrijp hier niet goed wat je bedoelt in relatie tot het geen door de Amerikanen is gezegd, zou je dit toe kunnen lichten?

Het zal nog wel jaren duren voor de USA ooit eens iets aan de Russen verkopen dat voor hun Defensie gebruikt kan worden. Maar als een ander dat doet, in casu Frankrijk "mag" dat niet. Ik begrijp best dat m.n. Georgie niet happy is over deze deal.

Maar is dat nu zo erg? "Poses a threat to US security" ??? "Its allies" - kan ik ergens nog begrijpen - maar om Georgie en enkele andere staten die naast Rusland liggen meteen bondgenoten te gaan noemen? De Russen willen een voor hen veilige buffer rondom hen, met liefst zo weinig mogelijk buitenlandse troepen en materiaal gestationeerd. Ik denk dat de US ook niet blij zou zijn mochten de Mexicanen opeens "allies" worden van Rusland en dat daar wat Russen gestationeerd worden. Als je ziet wat voor reacties er al geweest zijn over Chavez in Venezuela...

[ARM-WAP]

Die Amerikanen zeiken altijd man, gewoon lekker Europees spul kopen gewoon Eurofighter, Rafale's of Gripen's 3 fantastische toestellen
en helemaal geen wapens meer uit de VS aanschaffen ...zal prima gaan !

Ik zou ook liever wat minder afhankelijk willen zijn van de Amerikanen maar
- de Amerikanen produceren toch meestal goed materiaal en, vooral, ze doen er dan ook iets mee: ze zetten het in. Daarbij komt dat ze ook een geweldige logistieke keten hebben en ook veel transportmiddelen om al die combat-units ter plaatse te brengen.
USA=een grote federale staat met een Defensie.
- in Europa wordt in beperktere mate matreriaal geproduceerd voor alle takken van defensie dat daarbovenop nog aan een redelijke prijs verkocht wordt door de producenten. Problemen: er zijn te veel bedrijven die bv MBT's en andere pantservoertuigen (kunnen) produceren.
Er is een overcapaciteit aan scheepsbouw maar stilletjesaan (en dan vooral door de recente crisis) zijn de overheden aan het snoeien in defensie en daardoor zie ik in de komende 5-10 jaar wel een paar werven de deuren sluiten...
Europa=papieren tijger met veel mankracht maar geen gemeenschappelijke visie voor defensie. In redelijk wat gevallen spelen telkens weer nationale belangen mee (vb: FR, GB, IT, DE...) wanneer het er op aankomt...

[Nikehercules]

Ik gun de Fransen hun deal... Zolang er geen smeergeld bij te pas gekomen is (want daar lijken de Fransen dan ook weer niet vies van te zijn)

Ik had liever dat wij LPD's met smeergeld hadden verpatst dan de Fransen schepen zonder...

Idd... en dan weer de reactie van de Amerikanen...
"U.S. congresswoman says Russian-French Mistral deal threatens U.S. security"

Het hangt er maar vanaf hoe je zulke aan- en verkopen bekijkt.
Voor de US is het "logisch" dat ze surplus F-16's aan super lage prijzen verpatsen (zodat concurrenten als de Gripen geen kans maken) aan Roemenen, Polen enz...
En wie (be)dreigen deze verkopen dan?

Ik begrijp hier niet goed wat je bedoelt in relatie tot het geen door de Amerikanen is gezegd, zou je dit toe kunnen lichten?

[Oorlogsvis]

Chapeau voor de Fransen...

Idd... en dan weer de reactie van de Amerikanen...
"U.S. congresswoman says Russian-French Mistral deal threatens U.S. security"

Het hangt er maar vanaf hoe je zulke aan- en verkopen bekijkt.
Voor de US is het "logisch" dat ze surplus F-16's aan super lage prijzen verpatsen (zodat concurrenten als de Gripen geen kans maken) aan Roemenen, Polen enz...
En wie (be)dreigen deze verkopen dan?

Ik gun de Fransen hun deal... Zolang er geen smeergeld bij te pas gekomen is (want daar lijken de Fransen dan ook weer niet vies van te zijn)

Die Amerikanen zeiken altijd man, gewoon lekker Europees spul kopen gewoon Eurofighter, Rafale's of Gripen's 3 fantastische toestellen
en helemaal geen wapens meer uit de VS aanschaffen ...zal prima gaan !

[ARM-WAP]

Chapeau voor de Fransen...

Idd... en dan weer de reactie van de Amerikanen...
"U.S. congresswoman says Russian-French Mistral deal threatens U.S. security"

Het hangt er maar vanaf hoe je zulke aan- en verkopen bekijkt.
Voor de US is het "logisch" dat ze surplus F-16's aan super lage prijzen verpatsen (zodat concurrenten als de Gripen geen kans maken) aan Roemenen, Polen enz...
En wie (be)dreigen deze verkopen dan?

Ik gun de Fransen hun deal... Zolang er geen smeergeld bij te pas gekomen is (want daar lijken de Fransen dan ook weer niet vies van te zijn)

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Chapeau voor de Fransen...

[Lex]

U.S. congresswoman says Russian-French Mistral deal threatens U.S. security

A purchase of French-built Mistral class amphibious assault ships by Russia poses a threat to U.S. security and is aimed against Washington's allies, the chairwoman of the U.S. House of Representatives' Foreign Affairs Committee has said.

"It is deeply troubling that France, a NATO ally, has decided to ignore the clear danger of selling advanced warships to Russia even as Moscow is taking an increasingly hostile approach toward the U.S., its neighbors, and Europe itself," Ileana Ros-Lehtinen said in a statement.

Russia and France signed a $1.7 billion (1.2 bln euro) contract on two Mistral class ships for the Russian Navy in St. Petersburg on Friday.

In line with the contract, the first warship is to be delivered in 2014 and the second in 2015. The warships will be equipped with Russian weapon systems, Navy chief Adm.Vladimir Vysotsky said.

French President Nicolas Sarcozy hailed the contract as a sign of strategic partnership between the two countries.

The deal has alarmed Russia's neighbors, especially Georgia, whose relations with Russia remain very tense since the August 2008 five-day war between the countries over the breakaway republic of South Ossetia, which Russia subsequently recognized as independent.

"Many of our allies in the region, such as Georgia and the Baltic states, have experienced cyber attacks, severe economic pressure, and even invasion by Russia," Ros-Lehtinen's statement reads.

Russia and France in January signed an intergovernmental agreement to build two Mistral class helicopter carriers at the STX shipyard in Saint-Nazaire, France. Another two are planned to be constructed later in Russia.

Contract talks stumbled over Russia's demand for the transfer of sensitive electronic systems.

A Mistral class ship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 personnel.

RIA Novosti
03:20 18/06/2011

[Lex]

Russia signs $1.7 bln deal for 2 French warships

Russia and France signed on Friday a $1.7 billion (1.2 bln euro) contract on two French-built Mistral class amphibious assault ships for the Russian Navy.

The deal was signed in St. Petersburg by Anatoly Isaikin, director of Russia's Rosoboronexport state-controlled arms exporter, and Patrick Boissier, president and CEO of France's DCNS shipbuilder, who are contracted to build the warships.

The signing ceremony was overseen by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.

The first warship will be delivered in 2014 and the second in 2015, DCNS said.

French President Nicolas Sarcozy hailed the contract as a sign of strategic partnership between the two countries.

"The signing of the contract... points to a strategic level of cooperation between France and Russia, as well as the constant support that it gets from the heads of state," the Elysee Palace said in a communique.

The project will provide 1,000 jobs over the course of four years, the Palace said.

The warships will be equipped with Russian weapon systems, Navy chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky said.

"Construction technology used in building such ships allows Russian weapon systems to be integrated into this project, including amphibious landing assets and carrier aviation," he said.

The use of Mistral class ships will significantly increase the effectiveness of humanitarian operations, he said, adding that they could be used both in peacetime and in wartime for a variety of missions.

The program has alarmed Russia's neighbors, especially Georgia.

Russia and France in January signed an intergovernmental agreement to build two Mistral class helicopter carriers at the STX shipyard in Saint-Nazaire, France. Another two are planned to be constructed later in Russia.

Contract talks stumbled over Russia's demand for the transfer of sensitive electronic systems.

A Mistral class ship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 personnel.

France has two Mistral class amphibious assault ships in service and is building a third.


RIA Novosti
19:27 17/06/2011