internationale ontwikkelingen MBT , niet Leopard 3 zijnde

[Huzaar1]

Om volledig te zijn, bij de T14 Armata ligt de motor achterin, maar bij de T15 Armata ligt de motor voorin, dat komt omdat het Armata concept modulair is.

Modulair, geneuzel. De motor van de panzerhowitzer ligt ook voorin en die van de leopard2 achterin. Ook beiden hetzelfde onderstel.

Niemand is hier echt onder de indruk van de Armata. Het is vooral een van Westen afgekeken ontwerp waarvan er een begrijpelijk vermoeden heerst dat ook dit project vol ontwerpfout en consessies zit.

[Kornet43]

Goede uitgangspunten, maar qwwer foute conclusies van een onbekende auteur onder de lijst.

Er is geen 't-14' configuratie, ze doelen dan op de crew in een gepantserde doos in het onderstel en geen bemande toren. Dat concept bestaat al jaren. De T 14 heeft dat overgenomen.

En het is ook niet hetzelfde, want in dit ontwerp ligt de motor voorin. Bij de armata achterin.

Om volledig te zijn, bij de T14 Armata ligt de motor achterin, maar bij de T15 Armata ligt de motor voorin, dat komt omdat het Armata concept modulair is.

[Harald]

Het duurde even  , maar na 8 posts gaat het al weer over de leopard3.

   hahahahaa... ik heb getwijfeld, maar omdat die andere posting hierover ook ging toch het artikel maar hier geplaatst 

[Huzaar1]

Het duurde even  , maar na 8 posts gaat het al weer over de leopard3.

Maar het is wel verwarrend, dit betreft het 'duitse' concept. Niet het franse. Er zijn dus nog steeds veel tegenstellingen. (Aanname)

Alhoewel, het gewicht/omvang verhaal was het hete hangijzer. Ik begreep dat de Duitsers eerder een zwaarder systeem dan 50 ton voorzagen, maar weet dit niet zeker. Of de Duitsers hebben hun mening bijgesteld of de Fransen mikken op een nog lichter voertuig (35-40t).

[Harald]

The Bundeswehr's concept under the MGCS project has now moved to a multi-platform solution, combining both manned and unmanned AFVs to fulfil all the future requirements that would otherwise have to be accommodated by a single MBT.

IAV 2024: German concept for MGCS doubles down on multi-platform solution

A senior Bundeswehr procurement officer, speaking on 23 January 2024 at the Defence iQ International Armoured Vehicles conference in Twickenham, outlined how Germany's vision for the future Main Ground Combat System (MGCS) project has moved from a single tank design to a multi-platform solution.

Noting a German emphasis on "mobility, mobility and mobility" as the overriding MGCS consideration, Colonel Armin Dirks, Head of Operations for the MGCS Combined Project Team within the Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support (BAAINBw), said, "From our point of view, the time for a single all-in-one platform is over." 

Citing Lieutenant General Andreas Marlow, the vice chief of the German Army, who had earlier noted that in future the tank has to provide more capabilities than it does now, Col Dirks said, "At a very early stage we learnt that if we want to integrate all these future capabilities on a single platform like before, like we have right now, we would end up [going even larger] with the respective size, and at that time the chief of the army said, 'No way: 50 tonnes; not a single drop more.'"

Thus, said Col Dirks, "We had to leave the capability analysis focusing on a single platform behind and go to the requirement analysis of the formation, put together all the requirements the future system has to provide."

The colonel then presented a conceptual image showing a formation of three AFVs that were each smaller than an MBT. He explained that the two leading AFVs, one of which was armed with a main gun and the other with a missile launcher, would be unmanned, while the AFV behind them would be manned and act as the control vehicle. 

Regarding other design considerations, Col Dirks noted that all three vehicles would need to share the same chassis to minimise their logistics footprint, while a considerable degree of automation would both reduce crewing requirements and improve lethality. 

Thus, the MGCS project under the German concept now appears to start with a 50-tonne unmanned ground vehicle (UGV), which, combined with other platforms, fulfils the complete set of capability requirements that could not otherwise be encompassed within a single MBT. The colonel additionally noted thus such a multi-platform solution offers a particular advantage, in that, if in future a new capability needs to be introduced, another vehicle can be added to the formation rather than further burdening the vehicles already in it.

While again stressing the importance of mobility within AFV design's 'iron triangle' of firepower, survivability and manoeuvrability – to keep the enemy busy and present that enemy with new dilemmas – Col Dirks added three key enablers: surveillance, detection, recognition and identification (SDRI); command, control, computers and intelligence (C4I); and sustainability.

The colonel additionally noted that in terms of energy management, fuel consumption and reducing the logistics footprint, the new MGCS AFVs would need to use a hybrid power unit. "We need to open that door," he said.

Meanwhile, because the AFVs' SDRI range would need to exceed their own firepower range, the colonel said they would require their own unmanned aerial vehicles, since their SDRI requirements could not be achieved with platform-based sensors. 

Moreover, for survivability considerations and because the new AFVs might have a smaller ammunition loadout than a Leopard 2 MBT, Col Dirks said the AFV with the main gun would need the technology to secure "more one-shot kills". 

"So we need that," said Col Dirks. "We need a game changer – not a linear extrapolation of what we have right now, only an improvement; what we need is to restart because the Leopard 2 deserves its retirement in a couple of years and we need something new, with which we can start again, of a lower size, a lower weight and then have the growth capability for the future.

"In 2050 the Leopard 2 will then be in service 50 years [Editor's note: having entered service in late 1979, by 2050, the Leopard 2 family will in fact have been in service for over 70 years.], and so we look to the future system, the successor system, to use at least until the end of the century," the colonel added. "Therefore, we need to widen our view a little bit." 

The MGCS project was launched in 2017 by Germany and France to replace their respective Leopard 2 and Leclerc MBTs. It was originally to be developed by KNDS, a joint holding company set up in 2015 by Germany's KMW and France's Nexter Systems. However, German firm Rheinmetall joined the MGCS project in 2019 and it remains to be seen whether German and French views on what the programme should produce can remain aligned.

https://euro-sd.com/2024/01/major-news/36084/german-concept-for-mgcs/

[Huzaar1]

Interesting briefing at #IAV24 about how German thinking is influencing the next generation main battle tank for the MGCS project. Potential features:
1️⃣ Weight reduction to 50 tonnes  - more compact design
2️⃣ Mobility, mobility, mobility - high power to weight ratio
3️⃣ System of systems approach - common platform with different types including gun tank, missile launcher, and uncrewed air defence wingman
4️⃣ Likely to have a larger gun - 130 mm / 140 mm and capacity to fire NLOS ATGMs
5️⃣ Uncrewed turret
6️⃣ Three-person crew located in the hull
7️⃣ Integral APS / SHORAD capability
8️⃣ Hybrid electric drive with 1,800 hp
9️⃣ Passive and Reactive protection
🔟 Front-mounted engine
Conceptual illustration shows possible layout. Interesting that MGCS and Abrams X follow T-14 configuration. One thing seems certain: crewed turrets are finished



https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/status/1750069734006022285

Goede uitgangspunten, maar qwwer foute conclusies van een onbekende auteur onder de lijst.

Er is geen 't-14' configuratie, ze doelen dan op de crew in een gepantserde doos in het onderstel en geen bemande toren. Dat concept bestaat al jaren. De T 14 heeft dat overgenomen.

En het is ook niet hetzelfde, want in dit ontwerp ligt de motor voorin. Bij de armata achterin.

[Parera]

Interesting briefing at #IAV24 about how German thinking is influencing the next generation main battle tank for the MGCS project. Potential features:
1️⃣ Weight reduction to 50 tonnes  - more compact design
2️⃣ Mobility, mobility, mobility - high power to weight ratio
3️⃣ System of systems approach - common platform with different types including gun tank, missile launcher, and uncrewed air defence wingman
4️⃣ Likely to have a larger gun - 130 mm / 140 mm and capacity to fire NLOS ATGMs
5️⃣ Uncrewed turret
6️⃣ Three-person crew located in the hull
7️⃣ Integral APS / SHORAD capability
8️⃣ Hybrid electric drive with 1,800 hp
9️⃣ Passive and Reactive protection
🔟 Front-mounted engine
Conceptual illustration shows possible layout. Interesting that MGCS and Abrams X follow T-14 configuration. One thing seems certain: crewed turrets are finished



https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/status/1750069734006022285

[Harald]

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2024-01-23/lithuania-seeks-to-buy-leopard-2-tanks-from-germany

Lithuania's Defence Council has decided to initiate negotiations to buy Leopard 2 tanks from Germany, Defence Minister Arvydas Anusauskas told reporters on Tuesday, as the NATO member seeks to build a tank battalion.

The Leopard 2 is made by Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, part of German-French technology group KNDS.

"Our intention is creating a tank battalion, but much will depend on conditions, such as what price we agree on. So I can't name any details yet," he said.

[Huzaar1]

Ja, ze moeten het idee binnenlands kunnen verkopen... Dat daaraan, net als AJAX, ettelijke miljoenen uitgegeven worden.
Met wat ze nu daaraan gaan spenderen hadden ze het actuale Leopard II model kunnen bestellen.
Assemblage in UK... levert weer wat arbeidsplekken op.
Meteen nog wat meer standardisatie binnen de Europese vleugel van de NAVO.

Hun CR2 konden ze dan nog alsnog verpatsen aan de Oekrainers als steun, met een heel pak reservedelen (uit stock en... door cannibalisering)

Het is inderdaad niet te volgen dit.

[ARM-WAP]

Nou, nou "the best tank in NATO"

Ja, ze moeten het idee binnenlands kunnen verkopen... Dat daaraan, net als AJAX, ettelijke miljoenen uitgegeven worden.
Met wat ze nu daaraan gaan spenderen hadden ze het actuale Leopard II model kunnen bestellen.
Assemblage in UK... levert weer wat arbeidsplekken op.
Meteen nog wat meer standardisatie binnen de Europese vleugel van de NAVO.

Hun CR2 konden ze dan nog alsnog verpatsen aan de Oekrainers als steun, met een heel pak reservedelen (uit stock en... door cannibalisering)

[Master Mack]

Nou, nou "the best tank in NATO"

[Harald]

Revealed: First look at UK's Challenger 3 main battle tank prototype

"The Challenger 3 program will deliver the best tank in NATO ... and deliver a network enabled, digital main battle tank, providing the soldier with a step changing capability," said Rory Breen, strategy and future business director at RBSL.



The German-UK joint venture Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land (RBSL) has shared imagery of a first British Army Challenger 3 Main Battle Tank (MBT) prototype, after completing the build of the new vehicle at its Telford, England, production facility.

The first public images of the prototype were released today at the IQPC International Armoured Vehicles conference in London, with the vehicle expected to begin trials shortly. A total of 18 months of trials, split between sites in the UK and Germany, are planned before a systems qualification review next year. Eight prototypes are due to be developed.

"The Challenger 3 program will deliver the best tank in NATO ... and deliver a network enabled, digital main battle tank, providing the soldier with a step-changing capability, ensuring a 21st century deterrence through to the out of service date [slated for 2040]," said Rory Breen, strategy and future business director at RBSL. "The first prototype ... will begin trials in the coming weeks."

The main purpose of the trial, set to be uncrewed, is to "allow us to confirm the system is safe for [subsequent] crew trials," added Breen.

.../...

Challenger 3 Initial Operating Capability is targeted for 2027.

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/01/revealed-first-look-at-uk-challenger-3-main-battle-tank-prototype/

[Harald]

https://packaged-media.redd.it/rti7kegnsw9b1/pb/m2-res_720p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1705323600&s=fcfb7168fee7e51e5c62635ada8f9745f1a03d48#t=0

Snow leopards 

[Harald]

Interessant, natuurlijk voor alle type voortuigen, maar zeker MBT

Artis said has it demonstrated the Sentinel can protect vehicles and infrastructure from nearly all direct-fire threats, including tank-fired rounds, anti-tank guided missiles, rocket-propelled grenades and loitering munitions — otherwise known as exploding drones, which target vehicles and infantry alike, often with deadly effect.

Een systeem als onderstaand, dus een uitbreiding van de huidige APS ! interessant.

US company Artis unveils Sentinel third-generation APS Active Protection System
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_january_2024_global_security_army_industry/us_company_artis_unveils_sentinel_third-generation_aps_active_protection_system.html

Artis debuts vehicle active protection that tackles threats from above
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2024/01/05/artis-debuts-vehicle-active-protection-that-tackles-threats-from-above/

[Harald]

New photos of the C2 Ariete (AMV) with both WAR and PSO add on armour.
https://www.iveco-otomelara.com/wheeled/Ariete-C2.php
https://twitter.com/NichoConcu/status/1738879749424889959

Levering van de eerste aangepaste C2 wordt in 2025 verwacht. Ik ben benieuwd wanneer de eerste levering zal plaats vinden van de Leopard 2A8