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Overigen => Defensie Nieuws & Media (Internationaal) => Topic gestart door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 07/01/2015 | 19:15 uur

Titel: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 07/01/2015 | 19:15 uur
United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft

Wednesday, 07 January 2015

The Japanese government, lead by Prime Minister Abe, have been pushing for increased export of made in Japan defense systems for the past year. Reuters is reporting that United Kingdom is being offered the Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA).

The United States have also been pitching the Boeing P-8 Poseidon and the Lockheed Martin SC-130J Sea Hercules MPAs.

The Nimrod MRA4 programme was cancelled in 2010 as a result of the Strategic Defence and Security Review
and British forces are left no direct MPA replacement since. In November 2014 a submarine was detected off the coast of Scotland and Britain requested MPAs from France, Canada and the US to conduct patrols, in conjunction with Royal Navy surface warships.

The P-1s, designed by Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd. in cooperation with the Japanese Defense Ministry, will replace over 80 aging P-3 Orion MPAs used by the JMSDF. The new planes should start being deployed on patrol duties this year following  two years of flight testing. The P-1 development started in 2001 and planed to finish in March 2012. The process was delayed for one year due to cracks found in its wings and bodies.

During the official delivery ceremony held in 2013, an official declared that the JMSDF expressed a need fo a total of 70 P-1s.

The Japanese government, lead by Prime Minister Abe, have been pushing for increased export of made in Japan defense systems for the past year. Reuters is reporting that United Kingdom is being offered the Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA).
     
As the successor to the P-3C, the P-1 is used for prolonged, extensive patrols in the sea areas surrounding Japan. The P-1 is a totally new aircraft that was developed and manufactured domestically, including the airframe, the engines and the patrol systems. According to the JMSDF, with its latest technologies, the P-1 flies faster and has a greater range and useful load than the P-3C, enabling it to patrol the extensive sea areas surrounding Japan for many hours.

It is the first aircraft in the world fitted with fiber-optics flight controls. Their main strength is that they reduce the risk of electromagnetic interference. ASW (anti-submarine warfare) is assisted by an artificial intelligence. The P-1 is fitted with a Toshiba HPS-106 AESA radar with 360 degree coverage,a magnetic anomaly detector (MAD) at the back, and Infrared/Light detection systems.

It has a bomb bay and 8 hardpoints, allowing it to take nearly 9 tons of payloads, including nearly 100 sonobuoys. Its crew consists of a pilot, a co-pilot and 11 operators.

Zie link voor de foto's

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2314
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Kaaskop2 op 07/01/2015 | 20:22 uur
Laten wij er dan maar ook gelijk een aantal van aanschaffen :-)

Japan lijkt overigens wel te realiseren dat het zijn van een eilandstaat extra risico's met zich meebrengt. Ze hebben 's werelds grootste mijnbestrijdingsdienst en een zeer groot aantal schepen en vliegtuigen gewijd aan onderzeebootbestrijding.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 07/01/2015 | 21:40 uur
Met het pooling and sharing gedachte in het achterhoofd. Samen optrekken met de UK voor nieuw MPA. P-1 is goedkoper, sneller heeft een grotere range dan de P-8.
P-1 zou 200 miljoen usd 2014 kosten.

Weet niet of P-1 ook voor intell te gebruiken is. Heeft wel een aesa radar met 360 graden view bereik.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 08/01/2015 | 11:17 uur


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_P-1
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 08/01/2015 | 16:28 uur
Exclusive: Japan seeks to sell sub-hunting jet to UK as Abe pushes arms exports


(Reuters) - Japan is asking Britain to buy its P-1 submarine-hunting jet in a deal that could top $1 billion, a major step in Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's push to arms exports after decades of self-imposed restrictions, people with knowledge of the proposal said.

Britain has not formally decided it will buy new maritime patrol planes, having canceled an order for nine built by BAE Systems in 2010 due to delays and cost over-runs, and the P-1, made by Kawasaki Heavy Industries, would face stiff competition from Boeing's P-8 Poseidon, the three sources told Reuters.

Japanese officials raised the issue of London buying the P-1 to replace the British-made Hawker Siddeley Nimrod, which was retired in 2011, when they met their UK counterparts to discuss defense-equipment cooperation at the Farnborough Air Show near London in July, the sources said.

After Abe eased curbs on military exports in April, his Defense Ministry has been looking to tap foreign markets for its cocooned weapons makers, including potential deals to sell subs to Australia and seaplanes to India. A P-1 sale to Britain would be Japan's first major military deal outside the Asia-Pacific region.

Abe wants Japan's defense suppliers to move into the global arms market through tie-ups that will help bring down procurement costs and strengthen the nation's military to counter China's growing military might.

Even if Britain doesn't buy, the P-1 could benefit from being treated as a genuine contender.

"If the UK gives it serious consideration, then the P-1 will garner attention internationally," one Japanese source said.

"It has potential customers beyond the UK, like New Zealand, Norway and Canada, with large maritime areas," said UK consultant Simon Chelton, a former BAE Systems Plc executive and defense attache at the British Embassy in Tokyo.

"We are considering a number of options in regard to defense equipment sales, but we don't comment on specific deals," said Japanese Defense Ministry's spokesman Hirofumi Takeda.

"We are not aware of the discussion so we can't comment," said Teppei Kobayashi, a spokesman for Kawasaki Heavy. "In general it is a matter of national policy, so if there is a decision that results in an order, we will follow that."

Britain's Ministry of Defence said it provided maritime surveillance using a combination of ships, submarines and aircraft, and coordinated closely with allies.

"We will continue to assess future requirements ahead of a decision in the next Strategic Defence and Security Review in 2015," an MOD spokesperson said.


STRATEGIC DIALOGUE

Senior Japanese and UK officials will have a chance to discuss the idea on Monday at a strategic dialogue in London organized by independent British and Japanese think-tanks.

The P-1, designed to patrol Japan's territorial waters from the Pacific to the East China Sea, where Beijing claims small islands held by Tokyo, will be the country's principal sub hunter for decades to come.

Japan's navy plans to buy around 20, costing about 20 billion yen ($170 million) each, over the next five years, though cracks in the fuselage and wing and engine problems have delayed its entry into service.

No announcement from Britain of any replacement for the Nimrod, which tracked Soviet undersea activity during the Cold War, is expected before May's general election.

Its least risky option could be the Boeing P-8, already built and operated by the United States, the closest ally to both Britain and Japan, the sources said. Deployed by the U.S. Navy last year, the first squadron armed with torpedoes and anti-ship missiles operates from Okinawa in southwestern Japan near China.

Boeing officials in Tokyo were unavailable for comment.

In its most recent order in February, the U.S. Navy said it would buy 16 additional P-8s at a cost of $150 million each.

If Japan can offer a P-1 variant tailored for the British military that is competitive on price and capability, it could represent a viable alternative.

Jointly building a P-1 that taps into Britain's experience building the Nimrod would allow London to retain rights over radar and sensing technology it would lose by buying a U.S. aircraft regulated by the Pentagon, one source said.

Last year Japan and Britain agreed on a deal that will see Mitsubishi Electric Corp partner with European missile maker MBDA to develop a medium-range air-to-air missile for the F-35 stealth fighter, which both countries plan to deploy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/07/us-japan-uk-arms-exclusive-idUSKBN0KG0WG20150107

Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Oorlogsvis op 08/01/2015 | 17:09 uur
Nou ....fantastisch
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Zander op 08/01/2015 | 18:52 uur
Interessante ontwikkeling daar in Japan.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Ace1 op 08/01/2015 | 19:32 uur
ik begrijp alleen niet dat de Royal Airforce niet voor de Sea Hecules is gegaan? Gezien het feit dat de Royal Airforce ook de C-130 J heeft.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Zander op 08/01/2015 | 19:39 uur
De Britten kennende zitten er meer voordelen aan de aanschaf van de P1 tov de P8.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 08/01/2015 | 19:46 uur
Citaat van: Ace1 op 08/01/2015 | 19:32 uur
ik begrijp alleen niet dat de Royal Airforce niet voor de Sea Hecules is gegaan? Gezien het feit dat de Royal Airforce ook de C-130 J heeft.

Allereerst zal besloten moeten worden of men deze capaciteit, wegens voortschrijdend inzicht, wil her-invoeren, dit staat o.a. op de agenda van de Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) in 2015.

Dus om nu de Sea Herc al als verloren voor de UK te beschouwen is voorbarig.

Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: dudge op 08/01/2015 | 19:51 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 08/01/2015 | 19:46 uur
Allereerst zal besloten moeten worden of men deze capaciteit, wegens voortschrijdend inzicht, wil her-invoeren, dit staat o.a. op de agenda van de Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) in 2015.

Dus om nu de Sea Herc al als verloren voor de UK te beschouwen is voorbarig.

Inderdaad. ACE trekt hier weer een erg simplistische conclusie.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 08/01/2015 | 20:22 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 08/01/2015 | 19:46 uur
Allereerst zal besloten moeten worden of men deze capaciteit, wegens voortschrijdend inzicht, wil her-invoeren, dit staat o.a. op de agenda van de Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) in 2015.

Dit is idd stap 1 en hopelijk zullen ze en willen ze het probleem van het ontbreken van de MPA capaciteit bevestigen en daarna komt stap 2, hoe het herinvoeren gestalte gegeven moet worden.

De situatie in de UK is eigenlijk gelijk aan die van NL, mijn gevoel zegt alleen dat het ontbreken van deze capaciteit beter en meer onderkend en gevoeld wordt in de UK als in NL.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 08/01/2015 | 20:34 uur
Citaat van: Harald op 08/01/2015 | 20:22 uur
De situatie in de UK is eigenlijk gelijk aan die van NL, mijn gevoel zegt alleen dat het ontbreken van deze capaciteit beter en meer onderkend en gevoeld wordt in de UK als in NL.

In de UK wordt iig de discussie gevoerd en is het een agenda item, in Nederland is het stil, ik zie, met een beperkte scoop, geen discussie anders dan op fora.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 08/01/2015 | 21:54 uur
Pooling Maritime Patrol Aircraft

At a time of financial crisis, not all Member States can afford their own fleet of maritime patrol aircraft. And even if maritime patrol aircraft have proven their effectiveness in the field, their numbers remain low mainly due to their exorbitant price tag.  "Pooling a fleet of maritime patrol aircraft would make it possible to allocate them more effectively to the Alliance's missions and operations as well as to the European Union. Maintenance could also be pooled and the costs shared" explains Ludwig Decamps, Director of Armament and aerospace capabilities directorate, Defense investment Division, NATO.

For future NATO and EU operations a pool of MPA could be vital for operational use of the Alliance, enhancing the efficiency of its employment in particular in critical times, in which resources are scarce.


http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_93218.htm


interessant stuk:  SMART DEFENCE PROJECTS AND PROPOSALS     (06 FEB 2014)

http://ictcluster.bg/_Code/UserFiles/Files/Smart_Defence_Projects_and_Proposals-Full_Extract.pdf

1.9 Pooling Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA)      blz 21 - 23           Nederland heeft aangegeven niet deel te nemen, wel hoofdkwartier op Eindhoven

2.37 Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA)      blz 131 - 132       geen Nederlandse inbreng

2.40 Maritime Multi-Mission Aircraft Support Centre (MMSC)       blz 135 - 137       geen Nederlandse inbreng

Nederland heeft dus totaal geen behoefte en doet geen moeite om MPA capaciteit terug te krijgen !! (mijns inziens)
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 08/01/2015 | 21:59 uur
Citaat van: Harald op 08/01/2015 | 21:54 uur
[Nederland heeft dus totaal geen behoefte en doet geen moeite om MPA capaciteit terug te krijgen !! (mijns inziens)

Dus is het tijd om het vuurtje op te stoken of te accepteren dat we deze capaciteit nooit meer terug krijgen zelfs in een periode waarin de OZB dreiging mondiaal zeer sterk toe neemt.

Dan (zowiezo) graag extra ASW fregatten.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 09/01/2015 | 08:58 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 08/01/2015 | 21:59 uur
Dus is het tijd om het vuurtje op te stoken of te accepteren dat we deze capaciteit nooit meer terug krijgen zelfs in een periode waarin de OZB dreiging mondiaal zeer sterk toe neemt.

Dan (zowiezo) graag extra ASW fregatten.

Daar ben ik het helemaal met je eens, zo-wie-zo de ASW capaciteit bij fregatten in de vervanging bij de M vervanging en een verhoging van het aantal naar 4 stuks.

Het vuurtje opstoken en onder de aandacht brengen en houden lijk me een goed plan en wenselijk. Al zou het alleen maar zijn om ze in Den Haag ze bewust laten worden van het niet (meer) hebben van de capaciteit en wat daar de consequenties van zijn.   

Ik (persoonlijk) lijkt het hebben voor NL van een Multi-Mission toestel welke ingezet kan worden voor meerdere taken met verschillende capaciteiten een voorkeur hebben dan specialistische toestellen bijvoorbeeld alleen voor ASW. (zoals we "vroeger" hadden)
Deze persoonlijke voorkeur voor een MM-toestel komt mede doordat ik vind dat je als land voor een deel selfsupporting moet zijn en hierdoor flexibeler bent en beter inzetbaar kunt zijn en inspringen op de behoefte.

Dus eigenlijk een toestel, in de basis een transport toestel met extra uitrusting en welke met o.a. een palletsysteem omgeturnd worden geschikt voor MPA, (ASW), INTELL, Gunship (CAS).
Er zijn al diverse systemen in omloop welke op basis van een palletsysteem diverse capaciteiten aan 1 type toestel kunnen geven.
Goede voorbeelden zijn de C-130 Hercs, C-295, C-27J.
 
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 09/01/2015 | 09:05 uur
Citaat van: Harald op 09/01/2015 | 08:58 uur
Daar ben ik het helemaal met je eens, zo-wie-zo de ASW capaciteit bij fregatten in de vervanging bij de M vervanging en een verhoging van het aantal naar 4 stuks.

Het vuurtje opstoken en onder de aandacht brengen en houden lijk me een goed plan en wenselijk. Al zou het alleen maar zijn om ze in Den Haag ze bewust laten worden van het niet (meer) hebben van de capaciteit en wat daar de consequenties van zijn.   

Ik (persoonlijk) lijkt het hebben voor NL van een Multi-Mission toestel welke ingezet kan worden voor meerdere taken met verschillende capaciteiten een voorkeur hebben dan specialistische toestellen bijvoorbeeld alleen voor ASW. (zoals we "vroeger" hadden)
Deze persoonlijke voorkeur voor een MM-toestel komt mede doordat ik vind dat je als land voor een deel selfsupporting moet zijn en hierdoor flexibeler bent en beter inzetbaar kunt zijn en inspringen op de behoefte.

Dus eigenlijk een toestel, in de basis een transport toestel met extra uitrusting en welke met o.a. een palletsysteem omgeturnd worden geschikt voor MPA, (ASW), INTELL, Gunship (CAS).
Er zijn al diverse systemen in omloop welke op basis van een palletsysteem diverse capaciteiten aan 1 type toestel kunnen geven.
Goede voorbeelden zijn de C-130 Hercs, C-295, C-27J.
 

Ik zou gaan voor de Sea Herc, volgens mij heb je daarmee het meest ideale MM platform met uithoudingsvermogen.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Zander op 09/01/2015 | 12:16 uur
Citaat van: Harald op 09/01/2015 | 08:58 uur
 Ik (persoonlijk) lijkt het hebben voor NL van een Multi-Mission toestel welke ingezet kan worden voor meerdere taken met verschillende capaciteiten een voorkeur hebben dan specialistische toestellen bijvoorbeeld alleen voor ASW. (zoals we "vroeger" hadden)
Deze persoonlijke voorkeur voor een MM-toestel komt mede doordat ik vind dat je als land voor een deel selfsupporting moet zijn en hierdoor flexibeler bent en beter inzetbaar kunt zijn en inspringen op de behoefte.

Dus eigenlijk een toestel, in de basis een transport toestel met extra uitrusting en welke met o.a. een palletsysteem omgeturnd worden geschikt voor MPA, (ASW), INTELL, Gunship (CAS).
Er zijn al diverse systemen in omloop welke op basis van een palletsysteem diverse capaciteiten aan 1 type toestel kunnen geven.
Goede voorbeelden zijn de C-130 Hercs, C-295, C-27J.
 

Dus een manusje van alles dat heel veel dingen redelijk kan, ipv een toestel dat haar taak (maritieme patrouille/ASW) echt goed kan.........
Doe mij maar gewoon een goed toestel dat goed is in waar het voor is bedoeld. Volgens mij is de P1 van Kawasaki zo'n toestel. De Britten kijken niet voor niets naar de Japanners.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 09/01/2015 | 14:20 uur
MoD Asks for American Help In Searching for Russian Submarine Near Scotland;

Britain Lacks Anti-Submarine Patrol Aircraft (excerpt)


(Source: The Independent; published Jan 08, 2015)

The Ministry of Defence has been forced to request US military assistance to track a suspected Russian submarine off the coast of Scotland.

Two US Navy aircraft have been conducting anti-submarine patrols in the North Atlantic Ocean this week on the trail of a Russian vessel in the area. A Royal Navy anti-submarine frigate has also been dispatched.

It is believed that the Russian submarine's presence could be linked to the recent reported departure of one of the Royal Navy's Vanguard missile submarines from the Faslane naval base on the west coast of Scotland. Vanguard submarines carry Britain's Trident nuclear deterrent.

The US planes - two P3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft - were called in to fill what defence experts have described as a "gapping chasm" in Britain's anti-submarine capability following the scrapping of the Nimrod patrol aircraft fleet in 2010.

SNP defence spokesman Angus Robertson MP said the US Navy's deployment of two aircraft showed that Britain had resorted to going to its allies with a "begging bowl", while defence analysts said it created question over the UK's ability to adequately protect its nuclear deterrent.

Defence sources said that "visits" from Russian submarines were "happening quite often" off the north and west coasts of Scotland.

This week's operation follows a deployment by maritime patrol aircraft from Canada, France and the U.S last month, which was first revealed in Aviation Week.

On that occasion there were suggested the a suspected Russian submarine may have been trying to track one of the UK's Vanguard submarines after "unknown submarine periscope" was spotted by a fishing trawler close to the Faslane base on the Clyde. (end of excerpt)

Click here for the full story, on the Independent website.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mod-asks-for-american-help-in-searching-for-russian-submarine-near-scotland-9966080.html


(EDITOR'S NOTE:  Britain's lack of anti-submarine aircraft, so embarrassingly outlined in this story, shows just how irresponsible were the current government's assurances that helicopters and Hercules transports could replace the Nimrod MR4 fleet it scrapped to save a bit of cash.
Two calls for allied help inside a month will prove very embarrassing to the governing coalition, especially in the lead-up to the next general election, so Japan's offer to sell Kawasaki P-1 maritime patrol aircraft to the UK seems particularly well-timed.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/160110/uk-asks-us-to-help-search-for-russian-sub.html
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 09/01/2015 | 16:25 uur
Citaat van: Zander op 09/01/2015 | 12:16 uur
Dus een manusje van alles dat heel veel dingen redelijk kan, ipv een toestel dat haar taak (maritieme patrouille/ASW) echt goed kan.........
Doe mij maar gewoon een goed toestel dat goed is in waar het voor is bedoeld. Volgens mij is de P1 van Kawasaki zo'n toestel. De Britten kijken niet voor niets naar de Japanners.

Ja, dat heeft denk ik ook iedereen het liefst. (ik ook).   Maar wat Nederland vroeger had en wil (kwa materieel, visie e.d.) daar zit een verschil in.

Daarom is een toestel alleen voor MPA/ASW een stap te ver en zie ik meer in een MM-toestel (Multi-Mission)

Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 09/01/2015 | 09:05 uur
Ik zou gaan voor de Sea Herc, volgens mij heb je daarmee het meest ideale MM platform met uithoudingsvermogen.

Daar zou ik ook als eerste naar kijken .. ja ... misschien zelfs wel een MC-130J, dit is eigenlijk een geupgrade KC-130J zoals de USMC ze gebruikt.

Ik denk dat de Sea Herc weer een doorontwikkeling is van de MC-130J. MC-130J zou je door het palletsysteem prima kunnen laten functioneren als een Sea Herc, block I of II  inclusief een aantal modificaties voor gebruik van wapens.

Price/Unit Cost:  The unit cost of the MC-130J is $77.39 million (flyaway cost in FY 2014). When aircraft are delivered to SOCOM they undergo special operations upgrades/modifications at a cost of roughly $9 million per aircraft.

Alles bij elkaar is de aanschaf prijs geen $ 200 miljoen USD voor een P-1 of de $ 250 miljoen USD voor de P-8
Natuurlijk kosten de extra palletsystemen ook extra investeringen, even ter vergelijking een Harvest Hawk systeem kost ca. $ 30 miljoen USD.
Een Sea Herc wordt geschat op $ 150 miljoen USD.

http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/MC-130J-Commando-II.html

Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Ace1 op 09/01/2015 | 17:23 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 09/01/2015 | 09:05 uur
Ik zou gaan voor de Sea Herc, volgens mij heb je daarmee het meest ideale MM platform met uithoudingsvermogen.

De Sea Herc is een C-130 met P-3C techniek erin.



Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 09/01/2015 | 20:13 uur
Citaat van: Ace1 op 09/01/2015 | 17:23 uur
De Sea Herc is een C-130 met P-3C techniek erin.

En wel op basis van het mission pallet systeem,

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/aero/photos/c-130/Variants/M12-1166510A002%20SC-130J%20Sea%20Herc%20Bro%20Media.pdf

(https://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-2i-CWgeq3mI%2FUcTUu4N0-NI%2FAAAAAAAACPQ%2Fp960KkGq6E0%2Fs1600%2FSea%2BHercules.jpg&hash=12f9c91a8bce20908189aa52ad430f2e7cab100b)
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Ace1 op 10/01/2015 | 10:41 uur
Citaat van: Harald op 09/01/2015 | 20:13 uur
En wel op basis van het mission pallet systeem,

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/aero/photos/c-130/Variants/M12-1166510A002%20SC-130J%20Sea%20Herc%20Bro%20Media.pdf

(https://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-2i-CWgeq3mI%2FUcTUu4N0-NI%2FAAAAAAAACPQ%2Fp960KkGq6E0%2Fs1600%2FSea%2BHercules.jpg&hash=12f9c91a8bce20908189aa52ad430f2e7cab100b)

Pallet wissel systemen dat is de toekomst. De C295 heeft dat ook een palletwissel systeem.

(https://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.piccer.nl%2F1%2Fuser%2F431d8%2F1420882878.jpg&hash=b91b0c4a822d6b72c7fd93c142cfec0928e5ca66)
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Zander op 10/01/2015 | 11:16 uur
Citaat van: Harald op 09/01/2015 | 20:13 uur
En wel op basis van het mission pallet systeem,

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/aero/photos/c-130/Variants/M12-1166510A002%20SC-130J%20Sea%20Herc%20Bro%20Media.pdf

(https://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-2i-CWgeq3mI%2FUcTUu4N0-NI%2FAAAAAAAACPQ%2Fp960KkGq6E0%2Fs1600%2FSea%2BHercules.jpg&hash=12f9c91a8bce20908189aa52ad430f2e7cab100b)

Nieuw toestel oude techniek erin???
Of zie ik dat verkeerd.
Ik ben misschien een beetje pessimitisch maar ik blijf van mening dat een toetel gespecialiseerd in haar taak beter is dan een all-roud toestel met wisselbare systemen.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 10/01/2015 | 11:37 uur
Citaat van: Zander op 10/01/2015 | 11:16 uur
Nieuw toestel oude techniek erin???
Of zie ik dat verkeerd.
Ik ben misschien een beetje pessimitisch maar ik blijf van mening dat een toetel gespecialiseerd in haar taak beter is dan een all-roud toestel met wisselbare systemen.

Mee eens, mijn voorkeur zou de P8 zijn, alleen vrees ik dat dit (of ever) nooit een optie zou worden voor herinvoering voor NL en dat kader is de Sea Herc een attractief alternatief.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Ace1 op 10/01/2015 | 12:22 uur
Citaat van: Zander op 10/01/2015 | 11:16 uur
Nieuw toestel oude techniek erin???
Of zie ik dat verkeerd.
Ik ben misschien een beetje pessimitisch maar ik blijf van mening dat een toetel gespecialiseerd in haar taak beter is dan een all-roud toestel met wisselbare systemen.

Ik ben voorstander van invoering van Sea Herc / C295 Al zijn er wel situaties waarin een P8 toch echt voordeel heeft. Het grote voordeel van een A319 of P8 is dat deze een groter zeegebied kunnen afzoeken, en een zeegebied verder van land kunnen onderzoeken in ASuW rol, (dwz, kruisvlucht/hoogte naar bepaald gebied, bijv van vlbLeeuwarden naar GIUK). Daar staat dus tegenover dat een Sea Herc /  C295 achtig toestel inderdaad veel goedkoper is, en veel beter in de ASW rol. De oppervlakte search kan tegenwoordig ook door AWACS toestellen (zoals de Wedgetail) worden uitgevoerd. Toestellen als de P8 lijken dus wel erg geschikt voor landen die een enorme EEZ, en groot defensiebudget, hebben. De meeste landen kunnen echter prima uit de voeten met een toestel met  kleiner bereik, zoals een Sea Herc of een C295 . Dat missie duur kan overigens nog opgerekt worden dmv tanker toestellen, het zal dan eerder de crew zijn die de beperkende factor vormt. Voor Nederland zal de Sea Herc/ C295  volgens mij een enorme aanwinst zijn.

Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Ace1 op 10/01/2015 | 12:24 uur
Citaat van: Zander op 10/01/2015 | 11:16 uur
Nieuw toestel oude techniek erin???
Of zie ik dat verkeerd.
Ik ben misschien een beetje pessimitisch maar ik blijf van mening dat een toetel gespecialiseerd in haar taak beter is dan een all-roud toestel met wisselbare systemen.

Niet helemaal het casco van een P-3 was in inderdaad oude techniek maar niet de ASW techniek van de P-3 C dat is moderne apparatuur en ook geschikt voor upgrades.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Ace1 op 10/01/2015 | 20:01 uur
De Kawasaki P-1 en de Boeing P-8 Poseidon samen op een foto. Persoonlijk vindt ik de Kawasaki P-1 robuuster  eruit zien.

(https://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F0%2F0f%2FP-8A_of_VP-5_and_Japanese_Kawasaki_P-1_at_NAF_Atsugi_in_2014.JPG%2F1280px-P-8A_of_VP-5_and_Japanese_Kawasaki_P-1_at_NAF_Atsugi_in_2014.JPG&hash=e6bcbcbaae58931424b0d33ffe90803159f749c7)
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: dudge op 10/01/2015 | 20:57 uur
Ik zie een parallel optreden met een aantal andere topics. Jammer, want initiële post is redelijk interessant als daar nog opvolging op komt.
Als de britten MPA's aan gaan schaffen zou dat een belangrijk project zijn. Als dat een Japanse kist wordt is het nog belangrijker. Voor zowel de Britten als de Japanners.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Zander op 10/01/2015 | 21:27 uur
Citaat van: Thomasen op 10/01/2015 | 20:57 uur
Ik zie een parallel optreden met een aantal andere topics. Jammer, want initiële post is redelijk interessant als daar nog opvolging op komt.
Als de britten MPA's aan gaan schaffen zou dat een belangrijk project zijn. Als dat een Japanse kist wordt is het nog belangrijker. Voor zowel de Britten als de Japanners.

Daarom vind ik dit ook een erg interessante ontwikkeling voor onze marine. Een aanschaf samen met de Britten zou financieel en qua opleiding en onderhoud voordelen kunnen hebben.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 10/01/2015 | 23:12 uur
Citaat van: Zander op 10/01/2015 | 21:27 uur
Daarom vind ik dit ook een erg interessante ontwikkeling voor onze marine. Een aanschaf samen met de Britten zou financieel en qua opleiding en onderhoud voordelen kunnen hebben.

Mee eens en een eventuele herintroductie, vanuit voortschrijdend inzicht, zou voor beide landen, startend vanaf nul, een absolute meerwaarde opleveren, dus waarom niet gezamenlijk?
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 12/01/2015 | 11:41 uur
American Orion is the new "Nimrod", are there any alternatives?

British aviation enthousiasts already mentioned it earlier this week through the social media channels, and now it has been officially confirmed by a UK MoD official. The United States Navy currently flies operational missions with at least one of its Lockheed P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) out of RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland.

Thereby the American plane is now more or less the new "Nimrod", with the British armed forces lacking sufficient anti-submarine capabilities since the retirement of the last of the 35 Hawker Siddeley / BAe Systems Nimrod MR2s at nearby RAF Kinloss on 31 March 2010. The planned introduction of the Nimrod MR4 was scrapped due to budgetary reasons.

In November the lack of underwater detection capabilities came into an alarming light, when London had to ask three fellow NATO nations to help search for a suspected submarine off the coast of western Scotland – a month after Sweden was searching for its "Red October". Already then the US Navy dispatched a pair of its P-3Cs, supplemented by their Canadian cousin – a RCAF CP-140 Aurora – and a French Navy Dassault Atlantique 2.

The painful situation of the proud sea-going nation of Britain has no easy ick solution. With the MoD using a lot of its financial resources on the new Typhoon and Lightning II fighter jets. An incredible sum of money goes to the new flagship of the navy, aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth for which London also seems to seek American assistance.

A best quick fix for the British lack of MPAs might actually be for the Royal Navy to buy second-hand American P-3Cs from the same type that is now operating out of RAF Lossiemouth. The US Navy is slowly converting to the new Boeing P-8A Poseidon MPA, meaning many P-3 will soon be obsolete. Japan reportedly has offered its new but somewhat troubled and likely more expensive Kawasaki P-1, but insiders think there is no chance that London will go for that option.

The possible alternative is the use of a smaller airplane like the RAF's R1 Sentinel, a Bombardier Global Express business jet stuffed with battlefield surveillance and intelligence gathering hard- and software. A likely candidate would then be Boeing's Maritime Surveillance Platform, a light version of the P-8 cramped into a Bombardier Challenger 605 but adaptable to other aircraft.

For now it is the US Navy that provides the United Kingdom with a limited submarine detection and hunting force. For how long that will be is still undetermined.

http://airheadsfly.com/2015/01/10/american-orion-is-the-new-nimrod-what-are-the-alternatives/
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 10/02/2015 | 14:29 uur
Meet the ELI-3360 Maritime Patrol Aircraft

For the second time an well-known aircraft manufacturer chooses a Bombardier jet as its next-generation Maritime Patrol Aircraft and Surveilllance platform. After Boeing using the Challenger 604 for its MSA design, on 9 February Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) introduces its concept based on a modified Bombardier Global 5000 jet.

The ELI-3360 Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA) – as IAI calls its newest combination, incorporates the ELTA ELM-2022 Maritime Patrol Radar, an electro-optical sensor, the ELL-8385 ESM/ELINT system, and a comprehensive communications suite comprising radios, broadband SATCOM and data-links as well as advanced Electronic Warfare and self-protection Suite.

The integrated multi-mission Command & Control Suite includes multi-purpose operator workstations and a weapon and stores management system which controls the under-wing weapons that may include torpedoes, anti-ship missiles and anti-submarine missiles, or stuff to be used in search and rescue operations.

In the past IAI has been using mainly Gulfstreams for special mission aircraft. No word yet of when the first real IAI / Bombardier ELI-3360 MPA will fly. The Boeing MSA competitor – dubbed Poseidon 'Lite' by Airheadsfly.com – is already up and running.

http://airheadsfly.com/2015/02/10/meet-the-eli-3360-maritime-patrol-aircraft/

(https://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iai.co.il%2FSip_Storage%2F%2FFILES%2F5%2F41335.jpg&hash=189ac59a9def6f0c9da15e22f86617f12a5048c2)

algemene info :
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/1/38651.pdf
http://www.iai.co.il/2013/32981-46349-en/MediaRoom_News.aspx
http://defense-update.com/20150209_elta_g5000_mpa.html#.VNoHS2d0y70


Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 07/07/2015 | 14:42 uur
Kawasaki P-1 patrols  UK market   (wel opvallend dat ze er 2 sturen helemaal vanuit Japan)

The Japanese Navy is sending two Kawasaki P-1 maritime patrol aircraft to the UK for participation in the Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT) next week. It marks the international airshow debut for the type, that first flew on 28 September 2007.

RIAT announced the Japanese participation on Tuesday 7 July, saying one P-1 will be a static display, with the second one in the flying display. Last year, the Japanese Air Force sent a Boeing KC-767 tanker aircraft to the airshow at Fairford.

In the recent past, the P-1 was mentioned more then once as a contender for a future maritime patrol aircraft for the UK. The decision to dispose of the Nimrod patrol aircraft in 2011 sparked a lot of criticism. Another very likely contender is the Boeing P-8A Poseidon.

http://airheadsfly.com/2015/07/07/kawasaki-p-1-patrols-uk-market/
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: andré herc op 07/07/2015 | 21:10 uur
Citaat van: Harald op 07/07/2015 | 14:42 uur
Kawasaki P-1 patrols  UK market   (wel opvallend dat ze er 2 sturen helemaal vanuit Japan)

The Japanese Navy is sending two Kawasaki P-1 maritime patrol aircraft to the UK for participation in the Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT) next week. It marks the international airshow debut for the type, that first flew on 28 September 2007.

RIAT announced the Japanese participation on Tuesday 7 July, saying one P-1 will be a static display, with the second one in the flying display. Last year, the Japanese Air Force sent a Boeing KC-767 tanker aircraft to the airshow at Fairford.

In the recent past, the P-1 was mentioned more then once as a contender for a future maritime patrol aircraft for the UK. The decision to dispose of the Nimrod patrol aircraft in 2011 sparked a lot of criticism. Another very likely contender is the Boeing P-8A Poseidon.

http://airheadsfly.com/2015/07/07/kawasaki-p-1-patrols-uk-market/
Als alles goed gaat ga ik hem volgende week van dichtbij bekijken ;)
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Lex op 07/07/2015 | 21:23 uur
Citaat van: andré herc op 07/07/2015 | 21:10 uur
Als alles goed gaat ga ik hem volgende week van dichtbij bekijken ;)
Veel plezier in Fairford.  ;D
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 07/07/2015 | 21:34 uur
Citaat van: andré herc op 07/07/2015 | 21:10 uur
Als alles goed gaat ga ik hem volgende week van dichtbij bekijken ;)

:angel: Vraag een offerte aan (ook van de P8), ik heb nog wel een adres waar je deze naar toe kan sturen.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: andré herc op 07/07/2015 | 21:45 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 07/07/2015 | 21:34 uur
:angel: Vraag een offerte aan (ook van de P8), ik heb nog wel een adres waar je deze naar toe kan sturen.
Als die Japanners begrijpen wie Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert is ;D
kunnen ze net zo goed na Fairford even doorvliegen naar Nederland  8)
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 07/07/2015 | 21:57 uur
Citaat van: andré herc op 07/07/2015 | 21:45 uur
Als die Japanners begrijpen wie Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert is ;D
kunnen ze net zo goed na Fairford even doorvliegen naar Nederland  8)

8) André we maken jou tijdelijk ambassadeur.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: andré herc op 07/07/2015 | 22:17 uur
Citaat van: Lex op 07/07/2015 | 21:23 uur
Veel plezier in Fairford.  ;D
Dank u wel  :cute-smile: :cute-smile:
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 08/07/2015 | 08:58 uur
Japan's Totally Original Maritime Patrol Jet Is Hunting For Buyers

voor gehele artikel, foto's en video zie onderstaande LINK
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/japans-totally-original-maritime-patrol-jet-is-hunting-1716182328

In het artikel wordt ingegaan op de vergelijking tussen de P-1 en de P-8.

..../....

Today, a couple dozen P-1s have been ordered by or delivered to Japan and after teething problems, the aircraft is rumored to perform fantastically well at its job. Still, Japan's demand for the aircraft is limited to replacing their own P-3 fleet and seeing that the aircraft is a now an integrated weapon system that has its major bugs worked out, Japan wants to see if it can get some of the billions of dollars invested into the program back in the form of international sales. This is precisely why two P-1s will appear at the Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT) this year, with one aircraft being shown as a static display and the other flying a routine during the air show and arms expo.

The UK's Royal Navy in particular is in great need of a maritime multi-role aircraft. Since the Nimrod MRA4 debacle of the last decade, the Ministry of Defence has no maritime patrol and sea control fixed-wing platform, which is pretty absurd for an island country. This is especially true seeing as Russia has drastically increased its submarine patrols all around the British Isles and even has sailed its ships into the English Channel.

Current candidates to fulfill this huge capability gap include America's P-8 Poseidon, its smaller cousin the Challenger business jet-based Boeing Maritime Surveillance Aircraft, a multi-role maritime patrol version of the C-130J known as the Sea Hercules and an Airbus C-295 configured for the maritime patrol role. Although other defense contractors will offer even more options, as of now this would put the P-1 somewhere between the P-8 and the Sea Hercules when it comes to cost and capability.

Currently, the P-1 is said to run about $140 million per copy fully outfitted (the P-8 is about $250M), but this figure could drop as efficiencies are found in producing higher numbers of aircraft at a time and as the aircraft matures. Additionally, Japan can be quite aggressive with its exports, and could even take a loss to realize a larger and more efficient total fleet size of P-1s and to get their first international customer for the type.

The UK is not the only customer out there that really needs to get into the maritime patrol game in a larger way than they currently are. Countries around the globe are finding huge capability gaps in this space. Asia especially, with its growing territorial tensions should see the multi-role maritime aircraft marketplace explode in the coming decade.

When you look at the P-1 and the P-8 closely you realize that the U.S. and their close ally Japan basically built similar aircraft for almost the identical mission. It is unfortunate that they could not work together on a common design. With a little foresight, who knows? We could be seeing P-1s with U.S. Navy titles on their wings today.

In the end the marketplace will tell if the P-1 offers enough extra capability at the right price to bring in the big defense bucks from abroad, but out of all the aircraft on the market in its mission-space, it is the only clean-sheet, totally purpose-built design. In this day and age of multi-role everything, where manufacturers constantly shoehorn disparate capabilities into a few common designs, that has to be worth something.

Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 08/07/2015 | 14:03 uur
Japanese P-1s to visit RIAT, Djibouti in first overseas trip

Japan will send its Kawasaki P-1 maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) overseas for the first time later this month to conduct operational trials in Djibouti and take part in the UK's Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT).

Two Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) P-1s will leave Naval Air Facility Atsugi in Kanagawa Prefecture on 10 July and appear at RIAT at RAF Fairford from 17-19 July, the Japanese Ministry of Defense said on 7 July. A Japanese MoD official told IHS Jane's that one aircraft will be on static display and the other will fly at the airshow.

It is not the first time Japanese military aircraft have been to RIAT: KC-767 tanker transports visited in 2012 and 2014, although these were only part of the static display.

After RIAT the P-1s, which are from 51 Air Development Squadron, will head for Djibouti to allow testing and understanding of "the technical challenges when operating in tropical and desert areas", the MoD said.

Japan signed an agreement in 2010 to build a base near Ambouli International Airport in Djibouti that houses about 200 personnel and two Kawasaki-Lockheed P-3C Orion MPAs. Facilities include a barracks and a maintenance hangar for the JMSDF naval aviation personnel supporting the P-3C Orion in anti-piracy operations. The JMSDF plans to replace its fleet of about 80 P-3Cs with 65 P-1s.

The JMSDF received its first two P-1s in March 2013, after which they entered a two-year "operational test period" that included weapons testing before entering operational service.

The MoD initially set aside funds to buy P-1s at a rate or one or two a year, but in its most recent budget, for fiscal year 2015, the JMSDF received JPY350.4 billion to buy 20 P-1s in a bulk order intended to reduce unit costs.

http://www.janes.com/article/52803/japanese-p-1s-to-visit-riat-djibouti-in-first-overseas-trip
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: andré herc op 19/07/2015 | 22:28 uur
Foto's van mij van de Kawasaki P-1 maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) FAIRFORD 2015
FOTO's André Pouw
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: andré herc op 19/07/2015 | 22:43 uur
Foto's van mij van de Kawasaki P-1 maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) FAIRFORD 2015
FOTO's André PouwP
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: andré herc op 20/07/2015 | 16:02 uur
Ook de  P-8 is natuurlijk nog in de race voor een order uit de  VK
Fairford 2015 foto's André Pouw
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: andré herc op 20/07/2015 | 16:11 uur
Ook de  P-8 is natuurlijk nog in de race voor een order uit de  VK
Fairford 2015 foto's 2 André Pouw
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 11/09/2015 | 22:21 uur
LMUK fleshes out plan to close UK MPA gap with SC-130J Multi-Mission Aircraft
(er lijken serieus plannen om de foute beslissing op de MPA toestellen weg te bezuinigingen, om te keren en de MPA weer terug te brengen)

Lockheed Martin UK (LMUK) has given further details of its pitch to address the United Kingdom's maritime patrol capability gap - as well as other missions - using revitalised Royal Air Force (RAF) C-130J Hercules transport aircraft that would otherwise be heading out of service around 2022.

LMUK's proposal effectively leverages both its parent company's position as the original equipment manufacturer of the C-130J plus LMUK's experience as prime contractor in upgrading the Royal Navy's Merlin HM.1 multimission maritime helicopters to HM.2 standard under the Merlin Capability Sustainment Programme.

The plan is to "take aircraft in service that are tried and tested and marry that up with all the best technology available from the Merlin Mk 2, and then build on that with a range of different sensors", Keith Muir, the company's business development manager for airborne mission systems, told IHS Jane's in the run-up to this year's DSEI exhibition.

Muir explained that, in forming its concept, LMUK had "looked at the totality of the requirement, including ISR [intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance] and special forces support", and in addressing that using existing assets and infrastructure had come up with a "low-risk solution that is extremely cost-effective".

The resulting platform, the 'SC-130J Multi-Mission Aircraft (MMA)', would be able to conduct ISR missions over land as well as sea. Although the mission fit for the platform has been designed to be modular, allowing it to be reconfigured "from open cargo space to high-end system in a day", Muir said he believed the aircraft would "become so operationally in demand that [their high-end mission configuration] will become a semi-permanent fit, so probably only the back third [of the cargo area] would end up being tailorable". He said, "That could be done in a matter of hours."

Interestingly, the SC-130J MMA would go beyond the provision of maritime patrol to offer a full anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capability. The concept allows for the dispensing of sonobuoys and includes a pair of conformal sponsons that could accommodate the full UK inventory of light- and medium-weight torpedoes. These would be located either side of the fuselage, ahead of the landing gear, and have even been modelled as reducing overall drag on the aircraft. Missiles - either anti-ship weapons or air-to-air missiles for self-defence - could also be carried on outer wing hardpoints.

LMUK is anticipating a full suite of sensors being carried on the aircraft, but has not specified any of them in advance of a maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) requirement being defined by the UK Ministry of Defence's (MoD's) Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR).

"We won't be prescriptive on that," said Muir. "The government is expected to announce the requirement post-SDSR and we will tailor our solution to match that." He noted that the MoD was "doing the work on that in ahead of an announcement expected in the November timeframe".

RAF C-130Js taken up to be converted into SC-130J MMAs would have their central wing boxes replaced by the UK's Marshall Aerospace, effectively putting them back to zero hours and allowing them to stay in service for another 20 to 25 years.

Other UK subcontractors would include Thales, Ultra Electronics, and Selex in a programme that LMUK says would be 80% UK-sourced, ITAR-free, and would sustain around 1,000 jobs in the UK supply chain.

http://www.janes.com/article/54155/lmuk-fleshes-out-plan-to-close-uk-mpa-gap-with-sc-130j-multi-mission-aircraft
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 11/09/2015 | 22:59 uur
Citaat van: Harald op 11/09/2015 | 22:21 uur

(er lijken serieus plannen om de foute beslissing op de MPA toestellen weg te bezuinigingen, om te keren en de MPA weer terug te brengen)


De strategic defense and security review (SDSR)  wordt gepubliceerd in oktober en na verwachting maakt de MPA zijn herintreden voor de RAF.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 14/09/2015 | 09:31 uur
Lockheed Martin offers up Nimrod replacement

Defence giant Lockheed Martin reveals plan to 'recycle' RAF's ageing Hercules transporters as spyplanes

The fight to sell a new spyplane to Britain will step up this week with Lockheed Martin showcasing its plans on how to fill the hole left in the UK's military power when the Nimrod jets were scrapped.

The defence company is proposing to take C-130 Hercules cargo aircraft currently in service with the RAF but due for retirement and repurposing them with advanced sensors to take over the surveillance role.

US-based Lockheed has been working in earnest on the project for over a year and will reveal its proposals at the Defence and Security Equipment International show in London this week.

An upgraded Hercules is seen as the most serious contender to Boeing's P-8 Poseidon jet, currently the frontrunner in the contest to replace the new generation of Nimrods which were scrapped while under construction in 2010 as part of a military review. Ending the work saved the Government £2bn, though £3bn had already been sunk into the project.

While the Government has not officially said it will buy a Nimrod replacement, it is widely expected that the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) set to report in November will formally set the process in motion.

It is understood Ministry of Defence has a team of military staff and civilian arms purchasing specialists from its Defence Equipment & Support unit looking at specifications for a replacement spyplane.

The Government faced embarrassment earlier this year when it was forced to "borrow" patrol aircraft from America, Canada and France to investigate reports of a Russian submarine near the Royal Navy's nuclear submarine base at Faslane.

Surveillance aircraft like the Nimrod are seen as essential to protecting the Navy's fleet of nuclear submarines and the new generation of aircraft carriers currently under construction.

They also offer other surveillance capabilities which are used to monitor land warfare, the need for which has been increasingly highlighted by growing unrest in the Middle East. Part of this capability if provided by the RAF's Sentinel jets, but these are getting old and have been slated for retirement.

While Boeing's jet is built in the US, buying an upgraded version of Lockheed four-engine propellor-driven aircraft could be more politically acceptable as much of the work would be done in the UK, creating an estimated 1,000 jobs. The Hercules could also be used to insert special forces troops into the battlefield.

To replace the Nimrods on a like for like basis a fleet of 12 new aircraft would be needed. In the P-8's case this could cost about £2bn with support, though a similar-sized fleet of C-130s would be about half that.

Gareth Jennings, aviation desk head at analyst IHS Jane's, said: "The Hercules is a realistic replacement. The MoD has the knowledge of how to operate it and the US Coastguard uses a similar aircraft so the Hercules has the pedigree. However, the RAF seems wedded to the P-8 so it can easily operate with the same aircraft already being used by the US military."

Although seen as outsiders, Airbus is lobbying hard for its twin-engine C-295 propeller-driven patrol aircraft to be considered. This would be an even cheaper option and the company argues the MoD could buy enough aircraft to give military a real capability, rather than just a token political fix, though analysts say the C-295 lacks the range to protect the Navy operating far from shore.

Northrop Grumman is also fighting to get its Triton drone in the mix, along with Kawasaki's P1 and consortium L-3's proposal based on a regional airliner.

All these groups are calling for MoD to make any requirement for a new aircraft a full competition to give them a fighting chance.

Defence think-tank the Royal United Services Institute called for an open competition rather than a "behind-the-curtains purchase of a preferred airframe".

Senior research fellow Professor John Louth, said: "Any announcement... should be for the reinstatement of a necessary capability and a commercial competition, not the announcement of the imminent arrival of a purchased aircraft."

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "We continue to assess future requirements and options ahead of a decision in the ongoing SDSR."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/defence/11859872/Lockheed-Martin-offers-up-Nimrod-replacement.html
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Sparkplug op 15/09/2015 | 14:11 uur
DSEi: Airbus calls for UK maritime patrol competition

By Craig Hoyle, London | 15 September 2015

The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) is being urged to hold an open competition to fill any requirement for maritime patrol or multimission aircraft that may emerge from its Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) later this year, rather than pursue a sole-source procurement with Boeing.

Speaking in the run-up to the Defence and Security Equipment International (DSEI) exhibition in London, Gary Soul, account lead for air ISTAR at Airbus Defence & Space, cautioned against the MoD acquiring the Boeing 737-based P-8 to close a capability gap created following the UK's last SDSR, in 2010.

Concerned about the potential for a non-competitive selection, Airbus made an unsolicited offer to the MoD in June 2014, based on the use of its C295 platform, which has already been adapted for a range of special mission tasks. The company proposes equipping the UK with 12 of the type, which Soul says would be sufficient to sustain three operational "task lines", plus training activities. The aircraft would be equipped with weapons and sonobuoys, which are already in the UK military inventory.

The C295's ability to perform multiple tasks is another element of the Airbus proposal, with Soul suggesting that other applications could include long-range search and rescue, exclusive economic zone protection, deploying paratroops and supporting counter-terrorism and special forces operations. The aircraft has a palletised mission system which, he notes, can be removed via a cargo ramp if required for duties such as flying humanitarian relief supplies, with extended-range missions supported by air-to-air refuelling.

Three different maritime search radars have already been integrated with the type for existing customers, and Soul says Airbus is now in discussion with a UK supplier which he believes would give it "a significant edge" in any future contest. Further details will be announced later this year.

Airbus claims that its C295 could be acquired for one-third of the cost of a P-8.

"With a small handful of shiny jets, you can't do everything," Soul says. "We believe we have a very capable set of mission systems that would give turbofan offerings a good run for their money. We need a competition to prove that."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dsei-airbus-calls-for-uk-maritime-patrol-competitio-416717/
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Zander op 16/09/2015 | 19:52 uur

DSEI 2015: Finmeccanica pitches multimission C/MC-27J to the UK

Gareth Jennings, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

16 September 2015

Italian company Finmeccanica is pitching its C-27J Spartan and MC-27J Praetorian aircraft to the UK government as a British solution to a British set of requirements.

Speaking at the DSEI 2015 exhibition in London on 16 September, senior vice president of UK Corporate, Sir Brian Burridge, said that the twin-turboprop tactical airlifter and its special mission stablemate are largely built by UK industry and would offer the country the range of capability sets that it is either currently lacking or will shortly lose due to fleet retirements and other factors.

"The [C/MC-27J] is about solving problems that air forces around the world are facing today, particularly the UK. The UK problem is that its ISR [intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance] platforms are very capable, but fragmented [into many different types] - there is the Sentinel, Rivet Joint, Shadow, and E-3D. [Further to this], it has a tactical intra-theatre transport aircraft with two refurbished BAe 146s, [and the] C-130Js that are to be retired [in 2022].

"The UK has packages of niche aircraft, which is not an efficient way to run a fleet. The [C/MC-27J] offers a flexible, affordable, and lethal solution ... with a UK industrial content of 37% [by value of the aircraft]," he said.

In terms of the roles that Finmeccanica envisions for the C/MC-27J in UK service, Burridge highlighted tactical transport and special forces, command and control (C2) and ISR, and maritime patrol.

Currently, the UK Royal Air Force (RAF) transport fleet covers the spectrum of strategic through to tactical, with the Boeing C-17 Globemaster III, the Airbus Defence and Space (DS) A400M Atlas, the Lockheed Martin C-130J Hercules, the BAe 146, and the Boeing Chinook. However, with the C-130J to be retired in 2022 and the BAe 146 not intended as a long-term solution, Burridge noted a future capability gap between the semi-strategic A400M and the Chinook helicopter.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 29/09/2015 | 14:10 uur
Lockheed Sees its SC-130J Sea Herc as The Affordable Solution to Answer UK Future MPA Needs

During DSEI 2015 which took place in London from 15-18 September, Lockheed Martin was showcasing a scale model of the SC-130J Sea Herc Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance Aircraft (MPRA). Keith Muir, Business Development Manager at Lockheed Martin UK, told Navy Recognition that "the SC-130J Sea Herc is a very cost effective and truly UK solution" to the future MPA need.

(https://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-yqFvsy8e9s8%2FVgJ2_MNNaHI%2FAAAAAAAACNE%2FdIY7b4A2acw%2Fs1600%2FSC-130J_Sea_herc_DSEI_2015_news_1.jpg&hash=4b4c3b53fbd677d623f320aba20bee358cc9b5ed)

Lockheed Martin strongly believes it has the most cost effective solution as its plan is to convert up to 10 short fuselage C-130J Hercules. We were explained that these 10 Royal Air Force aircraft are to be taken out of service starting in 2016 as part of the latest SDSR (Uk's Strategic Defence and Security Review). Lockheed stresses that there is still plenty of flight hours left in these 10 transport aircraft.

Another factor that contributes to the SC-130J affordability is its commonality with the existing Royal Navy Merlin Mk2: Lockheed plans to use the same mission systems of the Merlin onboard the Sea Herc. While the Merlin has two operator consoles, the SC-130J would be fitted with 5 similar workstations in a palletized roll on roll off payload. This way the SC-130J would still have the ability to conduct transport missions.

Finally, Lockheed Martin insists the Sea Herc is a truly UK solution as 80% of the work to be conducted on the SC-130J would be done in the United Kingdom.

Lockheed Martin thinks the UK MPA requirement will include capability to conduct missions over sea as well as land. MPAs don't have to be limited to the maritime domain: For example, French Navy ATL2 MPA routinely deploy on missions above Iraq where their ISR sensors prove effective to support fighters on the ground and in the air alike. Lockheed says its C-130 range has already proven its ability to conduct combat missions thanks to the KC-130J Harvest Hawk variant, which is fitted with a weapon mission kit including AGM-114 Hellfires air to ground missions.

Specific equipment fitted on the SC-130J includes a belly mounted radar (we asked if the radar may be Thales new Searchmaster but we were told that no radar selection has been made yet and that Lockheed may integrate any type of radar chosen by the British MoD), EO/IR sensors and an optional MAD (magnetic anomaly detector) at the tail.

To deploy effectors, SC-130J is fitted with two conformal sponsons for 4 to 6 torpedoes and with underwing pylons for two anti-ship missiles or four air-to-ground missiles (per pylon). A carousel is fitted Inside the aircraft to drop sonobuyos. To facilitate the work of operators during ASW missions, Lockheed Martin has developed an acoustic sound proofing to reduce the sound level inside the aircraft.

Navy Recognition learned that a scale model of the Sea Herc was tested last year in a wind tunnel facility in the United States. Regarding performance, thanks to its long range fuel tanks, the SC-130J is expected to have a 13.7 hours endurance, meaning it can deploy 1000 miles from its base and remains on station for 6.5 hours before returning to base. This can be extended with air refueling.

Finally, Lockheed Martin believes another advantage of the Sea Herc over its turbo fan equipped competitors (namely the Boeing P-8 Poseidon and Japanese P-1) is the ability to operate from shorter or even austere runways.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3113

(https://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-JBSPhZLH52E%2FUcTRlfLbcGI%2FAAAAAAAACO8%2FnuHvVgKpuyk%2Fs1600%2FSC-130J.jpg&hash=6347c90ad04381f856816dc7292bfe396f9d6f4a)
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: StrataNL op 31/10/2015 | 23:30 uur
Mark Hookham ‏@MarkHookham 58 min
CitaatMoD is understood to have dumped a £2bn plan to buy a fleet of P-8 sub-hunter jets from Boeing - see tomorrow's @thesundaytimes
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 01/11/2015 | 11:26 uur
MoD sinks £2bn sub-hunter jet deal

Mark Hookham and Tim Ripley  Published: 1 November 2015

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article1627241.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2015_10_31
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 01/11/2015 | 12:30 uur
Citaat van:  www.thesundaytimes.co.uk Vandaag om 11:26
MoD sinks £2bn sub-hunter jet deal


Een hele slechte zaak!

Nu maar hopen dat de aanstaande Engelse Strategic Defence Review (SDR) wel ruimte biedt voor een alternatief, zeker gezien de exponentiële proliferatie van onderzeebotten en het groeiend aantal bezoeken van "gasten' in "ons" deel van de wereld.

Henk Kamp wederom "bedankt" bedankt voor het ruïneren van de NL capaciteit!
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: dudge op 01/11/2015 | 12:49 uur
Zeker.
Er staat gelukkig ook niets over de capaciteit, alleen dat de belachelijk dure P8 het niet gaat worden. Misschien een stel Japanners of een handjevol C295ASW.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 01/11/2015 | 12:53 uur
Citaat van: Thomasen op 01/11/2015 | 12:49 uur
Zeker.
Er staat gelukkig ook niets over de capaciteit, alleen dat de belachelijk dure P8 het niet gaat worden. Misschien een stel Japanners of een handjevol C295ASW.

Het is even afwachten...
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 01/11/2015 | 14:27 uur
SDSR Leak Engine Revving Up

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2015/11/sdsr-leak-engine-revving-up/
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 01/11/2015 | 14:50 uur
Zeer benieuwd wat de volgende stap wordt. P8 plan te duur bevonden of proberen om de prijs te laten zakken?
Maar het herinvoeren van de mpa capaciteit willen ze wel. Tis de vraag hoe
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Marskramer op 01/11/2015 | 16:37 uur
Breng deze belangrijke capaciteit onder in een bilateraal of trilateraal commando en schaf er tenminste 18 aan.
Sea Hercules lijkt mij financieel haalbaar en kan ook als ISR-platform worden ingezet.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: andré herc op 01/11/2015 | 17:45 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 01/11/2015 | 12:30 uur
Een hele slechte zaak!

Nu maar hopen dat de aanstaande Engelse Strategic Defence Review (SDR) wel ruimte biedt voor een alternatief, zeker gezien de exponentiële proliferatie van onderzeebotten en het groeiend aantal bezoeken van "gasten' in "ons" deel van de wereld.

Henk Kamp wederom "bedankt" bedankt voor het ruïneren van de NL capaciteit!
Plus 1 helemaal mee eens!
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Ace1 op 01/11/2015 | 17:47 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 01/11/2015 | 12:30 uur
Henk Kamp wederom "bedankt" bedankt voor het ruïneren van de NL capaciteit!

En dat zegt een VVDer ;)
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 01/11/2015 | 17:53 uur
Citaat van: Ace1 op 01/11/2015 | 17:47 uur
En dat zegt een VVDer ;)

En ex marine man.... die een hekel heeft aan kortzichtigheid en het eeuwige gemekker door Zeeuwsmeisje.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Sparkplug op 03/11/2015 | 18:25 uur
Experts debate likelihood of UK acquiring favoured P-8

By Beth Stevenson, London | 03 November 2015

With the release of the UK's Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) around three weeks away, one defence expert has claimed that the government should bypass a competition for the replacement of the Royal Air Force's cancelled BAE Systems Nimrod MRA4 maritime patrol aircraft, and source an aircraft directly.

The SDSR is rumoured to be set for release on 23 November, ahead of the publication of the UK's Comprehensive Spending Review two days later, and filling the MPA capability gap is high on the agenda of industry and the Ministry of Defence.

However, given the period of time that the current capability gap has already existed, the source suggests that the UK should eliminate as much risk as possible and bypass a competition.

"I do not see a need for a competition, simply because of the urgency of need for this crucial capability as soon as we possibly can," the defence consultant told a Bird & Bird briefing on SDSR under Chatham House rules on 2 November. "Not just because we need a proven capability... because we can't afford to take any risk."

Boeing's 737-derived P-8 is at the top of the RAF's wishlist, but the high cost of this capability has brought the likelihood of a buy into question, with one national news report at the beginning of November claiming that the P-8 option has been abandoned.

"If we buy P-8 we're buying an aircraft that is proven, and not having to pay for the development costs of that capability, which of course the American government has paid for," the consultant says. "I do think that interoperability is crucial to this. Even the aircraft we've produced here, such as [Panavia] Tornado have interoperability with US forces and aircraft."

However, another speaker – who previously worked for the government – disagrees: "Clearly the RAF wants the Boeing offer. I believe that the capability gap has been outstanding for so long that there has to be a competition – a proper competition, but an extremely quick one."

The source adds that should Boeing win this competition, its offering would have to include an "innovative solution about ownership and costings", and that UK systems – such as sensors and electronics – would have to be included.

"[Defence secretary] Michael Fallon has also talked about a culture more ready to take risks and speed up change, to encourage innovation and encourage our technical advantage," the source says. "And this innovation has to be done with industry as a whole, including small and medium enterprises, not just large contractors."

Other notable expectations of the coming SDSR include a replacement for the British Army's Westland/Boeing Apache AH1 attack helicopters going ahead "very soon", plus a decision to extend the use of the RAF's Raytheon Sentinel R1 surveillance aircraft until either 2021 or 2025. A commitment to allocate funding for the upgrade of the service's Boeing E-3D Sentry fleet of airborne warning and control system aircraft to extend operations to 2035 could also be forthcoming.

An additional three RAF squadrons are also expected to be established, sources suggest – one for the Lockheed Martin F-35 and two for the Eurofighter Typhoon – as the 2019 planned out-of-service date for its 53-strong fleet of Tranche 1 production examples is expected to be reversed. The UK's overall F-35 requirement is predicted to remain at the previously requested 48, but "left open for upward review" in the 2020 and 2025 versions of the SDSR, the consultant says.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/experts-debate-likelihood-of-uk-acquiring-favoured-p-418551/
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 10/11/2015 | 09:09 uur
Lockheed Pitches C-130 To UK As Alternative to P-8

DUBAI – As the UK considers how to fill its maritime surveillance gap, Lockheed Martin is pitching a modified version of its C-130 multi-mission aircraft as a cheap alternative to Boeing's costly P-8 Poseidon.

The UK is currently weighing whether to buy the P-8 after the 2010 Strategic Defence and Security Review scrapped plans to buy BAE Systems' long-delayed Nimrod MRA4 jet. With the release of the new SDSR just a few weeks away, Lockheed representatives told reporters Nov. 9 the company could modify the UK's 10 existing C-130s to fulfill the submarine-hunting mission at significantly lower cost.

..../....

Lockheed's solution will be about 40 percent of the price of the competition, Ruddock said, estimating that the team could get the first four aircraft to full capability in just 41 months.

Lockheed is proposing equipping the UK's existing C-130 with the mission system developed for the Merlin naval utility helicopter, which is capable of anti-submarine warfare and medium-lift transport, Ruddock said. Lockheed would equip the aircraft with submarine-hunting Harpoons, as well as sonobuoys and life rafts. The aircraft also has advanced EO/IR sensors to detect hostile submarines, he said.

..../....

Voor gehele artikel , zie onderstaande LINK
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense-news/2015/11/09/lockheed-pitches-c-130-uk-alternative-p-8/75460480/
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Sparkplug op 23/11/2015 | 10:39 uur
UK to obtain nine P-8 maritime patrol aircraft

By Greg Waldron, Singapore | 23 November 2015

The UK is set to announce plans to obtain nine Boeing P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, as well as extend the service life of the Royal Air Force's Eurofighter Typhoon fighters.

The P-8 acquisition and Typhoon life extenstion will be part of a £178 billion ($270 billion) investment that will be made in defence equipment and support over the next ten years, says a statement from the prime minister's office.

Prime Minister David Cameron will outline the plans when he unveils the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) in the House of Commons later today.

With the last of the RAF's British Aerospace Nimrod MR2s having already been retired in March of 2010, the cancellation of the replacement Nimrod MRA4 indefinitely extended a so-called "capability gap" to what had long been considered an indispensable national skillset.

"These roles require an aircraft that can carry torpedoes, as well as being fitted with a broad range of sensors, including radar and sonobuoys, which are operated from the rear of the cabin by a team of specialists," says the statement. "These aircraft will also provide maritime search and rescue and surveillance capabilities over land."

The statement adds that the service life of the Typhoons will be extended 10 years to 2040. This will allow two additional squadrons, bringing total frontline squadron strength to seven, with 12 aircraft per squadron.

"We will also invest in their ground attack capability and fit them with a new Active Electronically Scanned Array radar to ensure they can continue to operate in hostile environments in the future," says the statement.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uk-to-obtain-nine-p-8-maritime-patrol-aircraft-419371/
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: dudge op 23/11/2015 | 11:00 uur
Het was wel een beetje te verwachten. Maar als ze dit dan toch gaan doen, hoop ik wel dat het er meer dan 9 gaan worden. Het is een leuk begin in ieder geval. Ook zal eea aan certificeren gedaan moeten worden, zou mooi zijn als ze o.a. met Storm Shadow en HOSBO kunnen vliegen.
Ook hoop ik dat ze de Sentinels behouden, tenzij zich al een NATO land gemeld heeft dat ze wil overnemen.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Lex op 23/11/2015 | 17:00 uur
Het nieuwe SDSR 2015 is hier (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/478933/52309_Cm_9161_NSS_SD_Review_web_only.pdf) te lezen.
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 24/11/2015 | 08:55 uur
NATO aircraft hunting Russian submarine near Scotland   
(schaamrood weer op de kaken bij de Britten, maar goed de oplossing komt eraan .... P-8 ... zal zeker denk ik nog wel 3 a 4 duren voordat de eerste toestellen "combat ready" zijn. )

NATO maritime patrol aircraft of France and Canada have come to the rescue of the Royal Air Force and are hunting a Russian sub off the coast of Scotland, according to some British sources on Monday 23 November 2015.

The Russian submarine was apparently detected a number of days ago just north of the United Kingdom. With the RAF having no anti-submarine capacity of its own, the UK Ministry of Defence called Paris and Ottawa. Two French Navy Dassault Atlantique 2 and a Royal Canadian Air Force Lockheed CP-140 Polaris are now forming the make-shift airborne maritime patrol fleet, operating out of RAF Lossiemouth.

Lossiemouth
London officially acknowledges the presence of "foreign aircraft" at Lossiemouth, but does not comment in length on their operations. Royal Navy sources however have confirmed the involvement of at least one frigate and a hunter-killer submarine in offshore operations in the area without releasing details.

Boeing P-8 Poseidon
If the NATO aircraft are indeed actively involved in "the hunt for Red November", it marks the third time in 12 months this happens. Relieve is on the way, the Ministry of Defence just announced the purchase of nine Boeing P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft today. But since it will take a few years for the production to be done, NATO will likely have to step in again to serve Her Majesty's once tough air weapon.

http://airheadsfly.com/2015/11/23/nato-aircraft-hunting-russian-submarine-near-scotland/
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 30/11/2015 | 16:04 uur
Life goes on after UK MPA decision

The announcement on 23 November that the UK will be purchasing nine P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) dealt a terminal blow to any thought that a requirement would be followed by an open competition.

It is believed that following discussions with the US government, a contract award can be expected in spring 2016, with first P-8 deliveries to happen before the end of 2017; possibly in line with the launch of the Royal Navy's new Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier.

At a briefing with Lockheed Martin on 24 November, officials expressed their disappointment that an open competition is not be held. However, no news of legal challenges have surfaced to date from any of the companies who had offered UK MPA solutions.

The company said that all of the key decision makers in the UK MoD were aware of what Lockheed were offering but no formal agreement had been made.

According to Keith Muir, international business development manager at Lockheed Martin, feedback from the OEM's proposed solution had been positive in the ministry.

Lockheed had proposed an open-architecture mission computer and software solution which could be fitted onto the UK's existing fleet of Royal Air Force (RAF) C-130J Super Hercules – becoming the SC-130J Sea Hercules.

The company is now looking to the international potential of its MPA solution, utilising its Vigilance multirole mission system, said Muir.

'We are now looking toward strategic markets in the Asia-Pacific and Latin American regions. Places where this solution could help counter-narcotics, boarder protection and anti-smuggling,' he said.

The system the company offered the UK was a five console system, which is one of the larger configurations. The system has already been fitted to the Royal Navy's Merlin Mk2 aircraft.

'We are not just offering the system on the C-130,' Muir added, 'it can be fitted on at least three types of airframe all around the Gulfstream family of aircraft. This is for the roll-on roll-off mission fit.

'One potential customer wants a bespoke ground-up solution with a new airframe as well as the mission system - we can provide both if necessary.'

This could involve either a bespoke Gulfstream or Bombardier aircraft into which the Vigilance system could then be incorporated.

For Lockheed Martin things are not looking too downbeat, however as the SDSR revealed plans for the RAF's C-130J fleet to have its life extended until 2030. It is understood that 14 aircraft will be kept, likely to be the longer fuselage Hercules C5 version as they prove more useful for a variety of missions.

The document also revealed that the UK government is to commit to purchasing 138 F-35 Lightning II aircraft over the life of that programme.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps-news/life-beyond-uks-p-8-acquisition/
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 14/12/2015 | 09:31 uur
Britain might loan 2 P-8As while waiting for its own aircraft to be delivered

WASHINGTON — UK Secretary of State for Defence Michael Fallon intends to discuss ways the US can help supply maritime surveillance capability until its P-8 aircraft come online – potentially including an acceleration of delivery for the Boeing made aircraft.

Asked whether the United Kingdom would be asking the Pentagon to provide some form of stopgap measure until the P-8s are available in order to deal with an influx of Russian submarine activity in Europe, Fallon said that will be an issue brought up during his Friday meeting with US Defense Secretary Ash Carter.

"Yes there will be discussions, and I hope they will be this afternoon, because we need it," Fallon said, specifically citing the "increase in Russian submarine activity" during the past year.

..../....

Voor gehele artikel, zie LINK
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/2015/12/11/fallon-carter-p8-russia-submarine-uk/77157960/
Titel: Re:United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 17/12/2015 | 09:29 uur
No modification for UK P-8

The UK will not fit Stormshadow or Sting Ray weapon systems onto its Boeing P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) in order to bring the platform into service with the RAF as soon as possible.

In a written parliamentary response issued on 16 December Philip Dunne, Minister of State for Defence Procurement, said the aircraft would be put into service 'without significant modification to ensure the delivery of operational capability as soon as is practicable'.

He continued: 'There are no current plans to integrate Stormshadow and Sting Ray onto the aircraft, though it is possible that future capability enhancements once the aircraft is in service with the RAF may include UK weapons.'

In its existing configuration the P-8 cannot conduct air-to-air refuelling with RAF Voyager aircraft.

A deal for nine P-8 MPAs was announced in the strategic defence and security review in November and ended months of speculation about regenerating a maritime patrol capability lost following the decision to scrap the Nimrod MRA4 programme in 2010.

Boeing's P-8 aircraft – based on the commercial 737 airliner – had been a leading contender for several months and had thought to be the favoured option by RAF officials.

Industry had been vying for months for a potential UK contract, with heavyweights Airbus DS and Lockheed Martin proposing solutions.

The UK now joins Australia and India as export customers of the P-8.

On 3 December Dunne said that entry into service with the RAF in the UK would occur during the 2019-20 financial year. Exact dates for entering service and for all nine aircraft to be operational were yet to be agreed.

Discussions were also ongoing with Boeing to determine how the programme would affect UK-based jobs, although it was expected to have a significant impact on the economy, according to Dunne.

He added that according to Boeing, the entire P-8 programme could generate over $1 billion.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps-news/no-stormshadow-or-sting-ray-uk-p-8/
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Sparkplug op 26/03/2016 | 11:07 uur
UK's Boeing P-8 purchase gets US tick of approval

By James Drew, Washington DC | 25 march 2016

The UK has moved a step closer to filling a maritime patrol void left by the retirement of the Nimrod MR2 in 2010 after being approved by the US State Department to acquire nine torpedo-carrying Boeing P-8A Poseidons for the Royal Air Force.

Estimated to be worth $3.2 billion, the deal is unlikely to face opposition from Congress during the 30-day notification period as the advanced, radar-carrying submarine and surface ship hunter is already being exported to Australia and India.

The US Defense Security Cooperation Agency announced approval of the pending foreign military sale on 25 March, just four months after British Prime Minister David Cameron announced the P-8A plan as part of a £178 billion ($270 billion) investment in new military hardware.

The Ministry of Defence opted to sole-source the nation's lapsed maritime patrol need to the Boeing 737-based P-8 over European and Asian alternatives, such as a C295-based solution put forward by Airbus Defence & Space and the Kawasaki P-1.

Since divesting the Nimrod and abandoning its intended replacement, the BAE Systems Nimrod MRA4, the UK has retained its airborne maritime patrol and reconnaissance competency by embedding RAF crews with Australian, Canadian, New Zealand and American forces.

A Nimrod replacement "has remained the United Kingdom's highest priority unfunded requirement," DSCA notes.

If the acquisition in finalised, the top-tier contractors will be: ViaSat, GC Micro, Rockwell Collins, Spirit AeroSystems, Raytheon, Telephonics, Pole Zero, Northrop Grumman, Exelis, Terma, Symmetrics, Arnprior Aerospace, General Electric and Martin Baker.

(https://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getasset.aspx?itemid=47658)
Boeing 737-based P-8A
US Navy

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uks-boeing-p-8-purchase-gets-us-tick-of-approval-423543/
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 12/07/2016 | 10:17 uur
Farnborough 2016: UK orders P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft 
(De Britten hebben getekend ... en de Noren hebben ook interesse ... wordt de P-8 de nieuwe MPA standaard ?? )

The UK signed a contract for nine P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft on the opening day of the 2016 Farnborough Airshow. Source: US Navy

The United Kingdom has ordered nine Boeing P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, Prime Minister David Cameron announced on 11 July at the Farnborough International Airshow 2016.

"We have today signed the contract for nine new P-8 maritime patrol aircraft for the Royal Air Force (RAF), underlining the UK's commitment to spending on vital defence", Cameron said.

According to the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) the cost of the P-8 will be GBP3 billion "over the next decade".

The P-8s are being purchased for the RAF to fill a UK capability gap created after the UK's Nimrod MRA4 project was cancelled in 2010. The first aircraft is expected to be delivered to the UK in 2019, UK defence minister Philip Dunne said at Farnborough, with all eight then delivered within the following 24 months.

The P-8 is a Boeing 737 civil airliner missionised with sensors, weapons bays and other elements to enable it to conduct anti-submarine warfare (ASW), anti-surface warfare (ASuW), search and rescue (SAR) and other roles. The type was originally developed for the United States Navy and is now also operated by India (as the customised P-8I Neptune) and the Royal Australian Air Force.

The nine P-8s will be based at RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland, which will have an additional 400 personnel deployed to the base to operate and support the aircraft. Some GBP100 million is set to be invested at RAF Lossiemouth in order to provide support and training at the base.

The decision to buy the P-8 was the highlight of the UK's Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) of 2015. The SDSR made the decision for an off-the-shelf purchase of the P-8 over running a formal competition or developing a sovereign or bespoke MPA capability.

The head of the UK's defence procurement agency (the DE&S), Tony Douglas, said on 11 July that "the P-8A aircraft was the best solution to fill our maritime patrol aircraft capability gap; it is tried, tested and can be delivered in the timeline we need."

http://www.janes.com/article/62159/farnborough-2016-uk-orders-p-8-poseidon-maritime-patrol-aircraft
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 12/07/2016 | 10:46 uur
Citaat van: Harald op 12/07/2016 | 10:17 uur
Farnborough 2016: UK orders P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft 
(De Britten hebben getekend ... en de Noren hebben ook interesse ... wordt de P-8 de nieuwe MPA standaard ?? )



Als ze slim zijn wel... en  ken nog een land welke gemaakte fouten uit het verleden zou moete herstellen en prima zou kunnen meeliften met 6-8 exemplaren bij de Engelsen en wellicht de Noren.

Maar.... dat land zal het vermoedelijk wel weer afschuiven op de Duitsers en de Portugezen.  :sick:
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 12/07/2016 | 11:27 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 12/07/2016 | 10:46 uur
Als ze slim zijn wel... en  ken nog een land welke gemaakte fouten uit het verleden zou moete herstellen en prima zou kunnen meeliften met 6-8 exemplaren bij de Engelsen en wellicht de Noren.

Maar.... dat land zal het vermoedelijk wel weer afschuiven op de Duitsers en de Portugezen.  :sick:

idd, Een opzet zoals de NATO AWACS organisatie zou eventueel ook kunnen ? ... AWACS boven land .. NATO MPA/ASW boven de zee/oceaan.

NAVO pool met P-8 toestellen welke bemand worden door een bemanning uit diverse NAVO landen, bijvoorbeeld Noorwegen, UK, Denemarken, Duitsland, Nederland, België, Portugal

Maar liever gewoon een MPA terug in Nederland
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: walter leever op 12/07/2016 | 12:10 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 12/07/2016 | 10:46 uur
Als ze slim zijn wel... en  ken nog een land welke gemaakte fouten uit het verleden zou moete herstellen en prima zou kunnen meeliften met 6-8 exemplaren bij de Engelsen en wellicht de Noren.

Maar.... dat land zal het vermoedelijk wel weer afschuiven op de Duitsers en de Portugezen.  :sick:

Idd Nederland moet er gewoon een stuk of 6 kopen,om dit weer te kunnen. ;)
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: dudge op 12/07/2016 | 13:33 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 12/07/2016 | 10:46 uur
Als ze slim zijn wel... en  ken nog een land welke gemaakte fouten uit het verleden zou moete herstellen en prima zou kunnen meeliften met 6-8 exemplaren bij de Engelsen en wellicht de Noren.

Maar.... dat land zal het vermoedelijk wel weer afschuiven op de Duitsers en de Portugezen.  :sick:

Sure, we hebben nog wel ergens 3 miljard liggen......
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 12/07/2016 | 13:49 uur
Citaat van: Thomasen op 12/07/2016 | 13:33 uur
Sure, we hebben nog wel ergens 3 miljard liggen......

Tja.... keuzes.
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: ARM-WAP op 12/07/2016 | 14:32 uur
Citaat van: Harald op 12/07/2016 | 10:17 uur
Farnborough 2016: UK orders P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft
Een goede zaak.
Het afstoten van deze capaciteit was een beschamende keuze...
Moeten bedelen bij de Fransen om hun MPA-gap tijdelijk te vullen zal zeker niet in goede aarde gevallen zijn bij velen.
Bijkomend voordeel is dat ze nu van die Nimrods af zijn en een zekere standaard en commonality kunnen aanhouden.
Iets wat met MLUs zeker van pas zal komen...
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: dudge op 12/07/2016 | 14:50 uur
Citaat van: ARM-WAP op 12/07/2016 | 14:32 uur
Een goede zaak.
Het afstoten van deze capaciteit was een beschamende keuze...
Moeten bedelen bij de Fransen om hun MPA-gap tijdelijk te vullen zal zeker niet in goede aarde gevallen zijn bij velen.
Bijkomend voordeel is dat ze nu van die Nimrods af zijn en een zekere standaard en commonality kunnen aanhouden.
Iets wat met MLUs zeker van pas zal komen...


Het was een beschamende vertoning. Het blijft een Europees capability gap, maar in ieder geval is dat weer een klein beetje gedempt.
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 12/07/2016 | 14:53 uur
Citaat van: Thomasen op 12/07/2016 | 14:50 uur
Het was een beschamende vertoning. Het blijft een Europees capability gap, maar in ieder geval is dat weer een klein beetje gedempt.

Gelukkig, goed voorbeeld doet goed volgen immers de beschamende vertoning van ons eigen land was er niet minder om.
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: ARM-WAP op 12/07/2016 | 15:32 uur
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 12/07/2016 | 14:53 uur
Gelukkig, goed voorbeeld doet goed volgen immers de beschamende vertoning van ons eigen land was er niet minder om.
Hhhmmm, voor de Britten is het echter zo dat hun MPAs de toegang tot de Irish Sea surveilleren en zo het pad van hun Boomers vrij moeten houden van nieuwsgierige subs die zich toevallig in de omgeving zouden ophouden.
Vind ik toch al pakken erger...
Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 12/07/2016 | 15:52 uur
Citaat van: ARM-WAP op 12/07/2016 | 15:32 uur
Hhhmmm, voor de Britten is het echter zo dat hun MPAs de toegang tot de Irish Sea surveilleren en zo het pad van hun Boomers vrij moeten houden van nieuwsgierige subs die zich toevallig in de omgeving zouden ophouden.
Vind ik toch al pakken erger...

Over de gradatie van "ergheid" kan je van gedachten wisselen, wat mij betreft valt het NL handelen rondom de MPA's in dezelfde categorie als het dumpen van de MBT's.

Titel: Re: United Kingdom could procure Japan's Kawasaki P-1 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
Bericht door: Harald op 09/01/2017 | 10:38 uur
Niet de Britten, maar de Nieuw Zeelanders zijn in onderhandeling met Japan over de P-1 en C-2 !
Definitieve keuze ; midden 2017
Afwachten wat de keuze wordt, Japan, EU of US

New Zealand looks to buy Japanese P-1 maritime patrol plane and C-2 transport aircraft

Japan is in negotiations with New Zealand to export the Self-Defense Forces' patrol and transport aircraft, in hopes of beating out U.S. and European competition to score its first large-scale arms contract.

That was reported by Nikkei Asian Review.

The deal will also involve the maintenance of the planes, and is potentially worth billions of dollars. Tokyo in September provided unclassified information on the P-1 maritime patrol plane and C-2 transporter, both developed by Kawasaki Heavy Industries, in response to Wellington's requests.

Representatives from Japan's defense ministry and Kawasaki Heavy are in New Zealand for negotiations. Japan could come up with a proposal in the first half of 2017 concerning the price, production process and maintenance of the planes. It will also consider jointly producing certain parts with New Zealand.

New Zealand will choose the winning bid as early as this summer out of a pool including American and European proposals. The Japanese government will also negotiate a treaty with New Zealand to allow the transfer of defense equipment and technology, a prerequisite to the potential deal.

The P-1, deployed by the Maritime SDF, was designed as a successor to the mainstay P-3C patrol aircraft. It can pick up even faint submarine signals through underwater sensors, and is also known to be fuel efficient and extremely quiet.

The bidding "will be a one-on-one fight with Boeing's P-8 patrol plane," a Japanese official said.

The C-2, meanwhile, can carry heavy loads over long distances. It was first delivered to the Air SDF in June 2016, with plans for deployment this March. The aircraft shares the same parts in the wing and other areas with the P-1, which will allow New Zealand to save money if it adopts both models. Airbus and several other companies are considered Japan's main rivals for the transporters.

http://defence-blog.com/news/new-zealand-looks-to-buy-japanese-p-1-maritime-patrol-plane-and-c-2-transport-aircraft.html