OV-10 Bronco's back in business ? Voorkeur voor props tov jet in COIN/CAS/IW

Gestart door Harald, 14/03/2016 | 10:31 uur

Harald

US Air Force is giving away retired turboprop light attack aircraft to Philippines 
( Bronco's komen niet meer terug ...  :'(  , maar worden gegeven aan de Filipijnen )

The Philippines will receive retired turboprop light attack aircraft from the U.S. Air Force, which has already begun the process of competing a contract to have the planes disassembled before shipping overseas.

Sources in Philippines said the government was offered the North American OV-10 Bronco twin-turboprop light attack aircraft earlier this year, after it had requested the transfer of spare parts for the type being stored by the U.S. government. The Philippines subsequently inspected the aircraft and found them suitable for use.

Defense News learned that the aircraft, which have been retired from U.S. military since the mid-1990s, will be provided free-of-charge to the Philippines, most likely as part of an assistance package to the country's military. However, the south-east Asian country will be liable for the costs of transporting them from the United States, with the transfer expected to take place later this year and the aircraft expected to be ready for service in early 2019.

.../...

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2018/07/24/us-air-force-is-giving-away-retired-turboprop-light-attack-aircraft-to-philippines/

Harald

Those Old OV-10 Broncos Sent To Fight ISIS Were Laser Rocket-Slinging Manhunters

Their mission was to find, fix, and finish the enemy—and they did just that.



he news that the Pentagon was sending a pair of refurbished and highly-upgraded Vietnam-era OV-10 Broncos to Iraq to take on ISIS raised a lot of eyebrows. It was a new twist in a decade and a half of counter-insurgency warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the United States has never used a light air support and surveillance aircraft. For many, the OV-10's appearance in Iraq had been very long overdue.

Now, The War Zone reveals details of what the pair of OV-10G+ Broncos were doing in Iraq, and how they went about it with impeccable results.

The Broncos were used to find, fix and finish the enemy. In the past, this process was largely accomplished by at least two very different aircraft and platform communities, both of which usually had their own unique command and control structures. By condensing all the required capabilities into a single platform—the OV-10—the kill chain could be drastically compressed and save gobs of money in the process.

The truth is, OV-10s weren't really close air support aircraft in the traditional sense at all—they were manhunters.

The Bronco's weapon of choice for this unique mission set was the relatively new but highly promising Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System, or the APKWS, a 70 mm rocket with a laser seeker and control section attached. Just like standard unguided 70 mm "Hydra" rockets, APKWS's can be carried in bulk on various US and allied aircraft, with 7- and 19-count rocket pods commonly used. This bulk capability means a dramatic increase in precision firepower on everything from light helicopters to A-10 warthogs. The Bronco is far from a one trick pony.

Laser-guided rockets can be fired either very close or miles away from their target, and at different angles, so aircrews can use creative tactics to achieve "unique" effects on the battlefield. In the right hands, these smart rockets can take out enemy personnel and destroy lightly armored vehicles under circumstances that no other guided munition could touch—at least not without causing significant collateral damage.

Not only was APKWS adequate, but when paired with the upgraded OV-10 Broncos it seems to have been a match made in heaven, or hell depending on which side you're on.

In some ways the Broncos wrote a new book on APKWS tactics during their tour in Iraq. When key officials were briefed on what the Broncos did during their time there, and hours of footage of the APKWS slinging OV-10s in action was shown, those officials were flabbergasted with what they saw.

The Bronco's "match grade" MX-15HD FLIR turret and big high-def display in the cockpit make the aircraft among the most accurate precision strike platforms on the planet. Night after night, the OV-10s put this capability to work. Instead of blowing up buildings or convoys, Bronco crews were killing ISIS fighters standing in dark windows, or in a single truck surrounded by others.

As far as just how precise the OV-10 crews could be with their laser-guided rockets and high-end targeting sensors, the Bronco's prowess in this department was almost freakish. It wasn't just taking out bad guys in windows—they were doing the same with fighters hiding under eaves, overhangs, dense cover and in doorways. Essentially, the Broncos were flying snipers for special operations forces hunting ISIS in Iraq. They could observe with great clarity from on high, collect intelligence and stalk the enemy. They could also kill that enemy with incredible accuracy. Instead of using a sniper's bullet, the Broncos used the Pentagon's guided munition equivalent, laser-guided rockets.

One shot, one kill, even under the most demanding of combat conditions.

The OV-10s were packed with intelligence gathering electronics, an armada of communications systems and data-links (including multiple sat-com systems), defensive countermeasures, Scorpion helmet-mounted displays for both crew, and a centerline fuel tank. This extra gas helped the Broncos complete an average mission time between three and four hours—a sweet-spot duration for the types of special operations sorties they were regularly tasked with supporting.

The human element that took the Broncos back to war was equally as impressive. The small cadre of Navy pilots were handpicked and were among the very best the service had to offer. All were weapons school instructors. The Weapon System Officers were from the Tomcat and Super Hornet communities, and had been embedded as special operations Joint Terminal Attack Controllers (forward air controllers) with SEAL units operating on the ground in the world's most notorious hellholes.

These senior-ranking and highly experienced officers had incredible insight into how SEALs operated on the ground and how to properly apply air power where necessary to achieve very specific effects on the battlefield. The experience and dedication of the Broncos aircrews were huge factors in making its experimental tour in Iraq so successful.

The OV-10's maintenance needs were also unique. The souped-up Broncos required just a single maintainer per aircraft, with the aircrews assisting in maintenance and support. It was an almost laughably affordable support footprint for an aircraft capable of identifying, hunting and killing the enemy entirely on its own.

This barebones infrastructure also meant that the twin-turboprop powered aircraft were highly flexible when it came to basing. Crews could just load their gear in the OV-10's cargo hold along with the maintainers, if needed, and self-deploy basically anywhere including austere and improvised airfields.

Central Command has been the driving force behind the OV-10 program and is pushing for it to evolve. Now that there is a load of data pointing to cost-effective success in Iraq, the hope is that Special Operations Command will invest into expanding the program significantly. Such a move is long overdue but better late than never.

Why were the Broncos picked for this proof-of-concept deployment in the first place? In the mid to late 2000s, the Navy tested a similar special operations air support and counter-insurgency light aircraft concept stateside under the Imminent Fury and Combat Dragon programs. During Imminent Fury, the Brazilian-built Embraer Super Tucano was successfully proven to be a flexible special operations close air support and surveillance platform, but it was clear that moving that aircraft into an operational role would be a major hurdle.

The Combat Dragon II package was originally developed for the Super Tucano, and this Navy Special Warfare program led to USAF interest. Yet the fact that the Super Tucano was a foreign import raised flags for established US aircraft manufacturers—namely Hawker-Beechcraft, which was developing the smaller AT-6. That aircraft was an armed light attack and surveillance version of the T-6 Texan II primary trainer that the Pentagon already owned hundreds of. The nimble team leading the program was able to bypass big defense procurement politics by taking advantage of a pair of available OV-10 Broncos, which had been used by Department of State Air Wing in Columbia.

This same small and enterprising team remains at the helm of the current OV-10G+ program today. 

Interestingly, the Pentagon ended up procuring the A-29 Super Tucano, though only after a long procurement battle between Embraer-Sierra Nevada Corp and Hawker-Beechcraft. The USAF is currently flying the type today in small numbers to train and equip Afghani aircrews. These aircrews are now putting the type to use over Afghanistan to provide precision close air support and surveillance. Think of them as a manned, more dynamic, but shorter-ranged MQ-9 Reaper—on the cheap.

With the A-29 now in the Pentagon's inventory, and its capacity to be upgraded with similar gear as the OV-10G+s have that are flying with today, it's possible the Bronco could pass the torch to a modified A-29 if the program is allowed to expand. Will the OV-10 go back into production? If the recent past is any indication, not unless SOCOM decides to go big and fund large fleet of Combat Dragon II derived aircraft. The idea was floated in the late 2000s and Boeing supposedly wanted a commitment of at least 100 aircraft to make it happen.

Then again, in the world of special operations, anything is seemingly possible I guess. I mean the fact that OV-10s were put to use fighting ISIS decades after their official retirement is just proof of that.

Voor foto's e.d. bij het artikel, zie onderstaande LINK
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3519/those-old-ov-10-broncos-sent-to-fight-isis-were-laser-rocket-slinging-manhunters

Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System, or the APKWS :
http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/apkws-laser-guided-rocket




Lex

Gezien de reacties in dit topic, zal eea nader beschouwd worden.

Lex
Algeheel beheerder

Harald

@ace1 ?? Ik wist niet dat je een moderator was ??
Ga het bij hun melden ipv het topic te vullen met zo'n reactie als je er problemen mee hebt. En anders graag een inhoudelijke reactie
Bedankt.

Ace1

Citaat van: Harald op 17/03/2016 | 14:12 uur
Boeing had naar de USAF de Super Bronco OV-10X geoffreerd in het LAAR (Light Attack/Armed Reconnaissance) programma in 2009

http://www.ov-10bronco.net/technical/boeing_ov-10(x)_super_bronco_info_card_2009_01.pdf

Boeing considers restarting OV-10 production after 23-year hiatus
artikel, feb 2009
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-considers-restarting-ov-10-production-after-23-year-321730/

Light Attack/Armed Reconnaissance programma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Attack/Armed_Reconnaissance

Oud nieuws dat is allemaal in


Oud nieuws dat is allemaal in gepost op  #25 Gepost op: 09/01/2013 | 22:44 uur »

Op onderstaande link.

http://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/index.php/topic,16915.135.html

Waarom is hiervoor een nieuwe topic geopend terwijl daar een bestaande topic voor is?

Harald

Boeing had naar de USAF de Super Bronco OV-10X geoffreerd in het LAAR (Light Attack/Armed Reconnaissance) programma in 2009

http://www.ov-10bronco.net/technical/boeing_ov-10(x)_super_bronco_info_card_2009_01.pdf

Boeing considers restarting OV-10 production after 23-year hiatus
artikel, feb 2009
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-considers-restarting-ov-10-production-after-23-year-321730/

Light Attack/Armed Reconnaissance programma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Attack/Armed_Reconnaissance

Poleme

Citaat van: Sparkplug op 14/03/2016 | 15:19 uur

Dat is het verschil tussen baseren op een trainer en een gericht (dedicated) ontwerp gebruiken.
De Super Tucano is van het begin af aan ontworpen als trainer EN licht aanval en verkenningsvliegtuig.
Nulla tenaci invia est via - Voor de doorzetter is geen weg onbegaanbaar.

Harald

Citaat van: Sparkplug op 14/03/2016 | 15:19 uur
Dat is het verschil tussen baseren op een trainer en een gericht (dedicated) ontwerp gebruiken.
Ik denk ook dat deze inzet met Bronco's voor de usaf ook een proefballon is in de vervanging van de A10.
Wel of niet vervangen en ook of een prop beter geschikt is of een jet aan gedreven toestel.
Alsmede door ontwikkeling van bestaand of clean sheet ontwerp

Ace1

Kan iemand mij uitleggen waarom er een nieuwe topic voor geopend is voor dit onderwerp terwijl er al een bestaande topic is over dit onderwerp?

http://www.defensieforum.nl/Forum/index.php/topic,16915.0.html

Sparkplug

Citaat van: Harald op 14/03/2016 | 14:51 uur
Voor de discussie, de A-10 is (misschien vreemd gezegd) is de vreemde eend in de bijt. Deze zit juist net tussen de props en jets in. Tevens de A-10 is ontworpen en gebouwd als CAS toestel. En is ook kosteneffectiever dan jets, zoals F-16, F-15, F18.
De A-10 valt onder de jets, maar de turbofan motoren hebben geen naverbranding. Vraag mij nog steeds af wat als de VS voor de A-7F Corsair II had gekozen.

Citaat van: Harald op 14/03/2016 | 14:51 uur
Super Tucano is een goed toestel, maar voor mijn gevoel zouden ze nog naar een iets meer robuster toestel moeten, net als wat bij de ontwikkeling van de A-10 geweest is, meer in de lijn zoals een A-1 Skyraider, meer bereik, meer bewapening, meer bestand tegen "vijandelijk" vuur.
Dat is het verschil tussen baseren op een trainer en een gericht (dedicated) ontwerp gebruiken.

A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

dudge

Citaat van: Oorlogsvis op 14/03/2016 | 13:58 uur
Dit geld hetzelfde voor de Super Tucano ..die de Colombiaanse luchtmacht gebruikt in hun campagne tegen de FARC..

We zeggen het al langer hier op het forum..een COIN-Squadron van Super Tucano achtige vliegtuigen zou ook voor onze luchtmacht
helemaal zo gek niet zijn.
Een squadron van 20 stuks koop je waarschijnlijk voor de prijs van 1 tot 2 JSF's

Het zou, zeker voor de Amerikanen, ook een goed export product opleveren. Nog los van wat ze er zelf mee doen.
Er zijn veel conflicten op de wereld, waar ze/we invloed willen uitoefenen. Heel vaak is het ook zo dat de landen waar deze conflicten plaatsvinden helemaal niet in staat zijn om complexe F15's oid te gebruiken, laat staan betalen. Kijk naar de Afghaanse luchtmacht. Die lui gaan echt niet met straaljagers kunnen werken, hoe hard ze het ook proberen. Een veel simpeler toestel kunnen ze echter wel mee om leren gaan. En ook qua financieen belangrijk natuurlijk. Het is redelijk goed te doen om de Malinese, Somalische, Afghaanse etc luchtmacht een aantal van dergelijke toestellen kado te doen, die ze vervolgens zelf kunnen exploiteren.

Een paar US Squadrons zijn wel nodig om de infrastructuur, kennis en procedures te ontwikkelen. En daar zit misschien wel de grootste meerwaarde van het hele concept voor de VS.


Harald

Even los gezien van het vraagstuk voor NL, maar het is duidelijk een test of je met "goedkopere, simpelere" toestellen (zowel in aanschaf als onderhoud) dezelfde resultaten kunt krijgen in de bijstand voor je troepen op de grond.

Ik denk ook dat in conflicten zoals Irak, Afghanistan, Syrië en ook Libië, Mali er prima gevlogen kan worden met props en dat die ook prima geschikt zijn.

Voor de discussie, de A-10 is (misschien vreemd gezegd) is de vreemde eend in de bijt. Deze zit juist net tussen de props en jets in. Tevens de A-10 is ontworpen en gebouwd als CAS toestel. En is ook kosteneffectiever dan jets, zoals F-16, F-15, F18.

Super Tucano is een goed toestel, maar voor mijn gevoel zouden ze nog naar een iets meer robuster toestel moeten, net als wat bij de ontwikkeling van de A-10 geweest is, meer in de lijn zoals een A-1 Skyraider, meer bereik, meer bewapening, meer bestand tegen "vijandelijk" vuur.

Oorlogsvis

Dit geld hetzelfde voor de Super Tucano ..die de Colombiaanse luchtmacht gebruikt in hun campagne tegen de FARC..

We zeggen het al langer hier op het forum..een COIN-Squadron van Super Tucano achtige vliegtuigen zou ook voor onze luchtmacht
helemaal zo gek niet zijn.
Een squadron van 20 stuks koop je waarschijnlijk voor de prijs van 1 tot 2 JSF's

Harald

Waarschijnlijk zijn de 2 Bronco's die een jaar of 4 geleden geupgrade zijn naar OV-10G+ en meegedaan hebben in een test



Combat Dragon II Demonstrates OV-10G+ Bronco Capabilities
http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/combat-dragon-ii-demonstrates-ov-10g-bronco-capabilities/



Harald

Why Is America Using These Antique Planes to Fight ISIS?

The U.S. military is testing a dependable, rugged little vintage bomber as it battles elusive ISIS militants in Syria and Iraq.

War was just an experiment for two of the U.S. military's oldest and most unusual warplanes. A pair of OV-10 Broncos—small, Vietnam War-vintage, propeller-driven attack planes—recently spent three months flying top cover for ground troops battling ISIS militants in the Middle East.

The OV-10s' deployment is one of the latest examples of a remarkable phenomenon. The United States—and, to a lesser extent, Russia—has seized the opportunity afforded it by the aerial free-for-all over Iraq and Syria and other war zones to conduct live combat trials with new and upgraded warplanes, testing the aircraft in potentially deadly conditions before committing to expensive manufacturing programs.

That's right. America's aerial bombing campaigns are also laboratories for the military and the arms industry. After all, how better to pinpoint an experimental warplane's strengths and weaknesses than to send it into an actual war?

The twin-engine Broncos—each flown by a pair of naval aviators—completed 134 sorties, including 120 combat missions, over a span of 82 days beginning in May 2015 or shortly thereafter, according to U.S. Central Command, which oversees America's wars in the Middle East and Afghanistan.

Central Command would not say exactly where the OV-10s were based or where they attacked, but did specify that the diminutive attack planes with their distinctive twin tail booms flew in support of Operation Inherent Resolve, the U.S.-led international campaign against ISIS in Iraq and Syria. The Pentagon has deployed warplanes to Turkey, Kuwait, Qatar, Jordan, and the United Arab Emirates, among other countries.

There are plenty of clues as to what exactly the Broncos were doing. For one, the Pentagon's reluctance to provide many details about the OV-10s' overseas missions implies that the planes were working in close conjunction with Special Operations Forces. In all likelihood, the tiny attackers acted as a kind of quick-reacting 9-1-1 force for special operators, taking off quickly at the commandos' request and flying low to hit elusive militants with guns and rockets, all before the fleet-flooted jihadis could slip away.

The military's goal was "to determine if properly employed turbo-prop driven aircraft... would increase synergy and improve the coordination between the aircrew and ground commander," Air Force Capt. P. Bryant Davis, a Central Command spokesman, told The Daily Beast.

Davis said that the military also wanted to know if Broncos or similiar planes could take over for jet fighters such as F-15s and F/A-18s, which conduct most of America's airstrikes in the Middle East but are much more expensive to buy and operate than a propeller-driven plane like the OV-10. An F-15 can cost as much as $40,000 per flight-hour just for fuel and maintenance. By contrast, a Bronco can cost as little as $1,000 for an hour of flying.

Indeed, that was the whole point of the OV-10 when North American Aviation, now part of Boeing, developed the Bronco way back in the 1960s. The Pentagon wanted a small, cheap attack plane that could take off from rough airstrips close to the fighting. By sticking close to the front lines, the tiny planes would always be available to support ground troops trying to root out insurgent forces.

The Bronco turned out to be just the thing the military needed. The Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps deployed hundreds of OV-10s in Vietnam, where the tiny planes proved rugged, reliable, and deadly to the enemy. After Vietnam, the Navy retired its Broncos and the Air Force swapped its own copies for jet-powered A-10s, but the Marines hung onto the dependable little bombers and even flew them from small Navy aircraft carriers before finally retiring them in the mid-1990s.

Foreign air forces and civilian and paramilitary operators quickly snatched up the decommissioned Broncos. They proved popular with firefighting agencies. The Philippines deployed OV-10s to devastating effect in its counterinsurgency campaign against Islamic militants. The U.S. State Department sent Broncos to Colombia to support the War on Drugs. NASA used them for airborne tests.

Thirty years after Vietnam, the Pentagon again found itself fighting elusive insurgents in Afghanistan, Iraq and other war zones. It again turned to the OV-10 for help. In 2011, Central Command and Special Operations Command borrowed two former Marine Corps Broncos—from NASA or the State Department, apparently—and fitted them with new radios and weapons.

The Defense Department slipped $20 million into its 2012 budget to pay for the two OV-10s to deploy overseas—part of a wider military experiment with smaller, cheaper warplanes.

There was certainly precedent for the experiment going back a decade or more. During the 1991 Gulf War, the Air Force deployed a prototype E-8 radar plane to track Iraqi tanks across the desert. The Air Force's high-flying Global Hawk spy drone was still just a prototype when the Air Force sent it overseas to spy on the Taliban and Al Qaeda in late 2001. Satisfied with both aircraft's wartime trials, the military ultimately spent billions of dollars buying more of them.

Not to be outdone, in November 2015 Russia sent Tu-160 heavy bombers to strike targets in Syria—the giant bombers' very first combat mission, and one that many observers assumed was really meant as a test of the planes' combat capabilities in advance of a planned upgrade program.

Such combat experiments don't always please everyone. When the Pentagon proposed to spend $20 million on the OV-10s, Sen. John McCain, the penny-pinching Arizona Republican who now chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, objected. "There is no urgent operational requirement for this type of aircraft," McCain said in a statement. Lawmakers subsequently canceled most of the Broncos' funding, but the military eventually succeeded in paying for the trial by diverting money from other programs.

The OV-10s proved incredibly reliable in their 82 days of combat, completing 99 percent of the missions planned for them, according to Davis. Today the two OV-10s are sitting idle at a military airfield in North Carolina while testers crunch the numbers from their trial deployment. The assessment will "determine if this is a valid concept that would be effective in the current battlespace," Central Command spokesman Davis said.

Lt. Gen. Bradley Heithold, the head of Air Force Special Operations Command, has already hinted that the military will stick with its current jet fighters for attack missions. At a February defense-industry conference in Orlando, Heithold said the OV-10s have "some utility," but added that it's too expensive to pay for training and supplies for a fleet of just two airplanes. Typically, the Pentagon buys hundreds of planes at a time, partly to achieve economies of scale.

Yes, the OV-10s are cheaper per plane and per flight than, say, an F-15. But for those savings to matter, the military would need to acquire hundreds of Broncos—not two. And that's not something that planners are willing to do quite yet.

Which is not to say the tiny attackers' combat trial was a failure. To know for sure whether the Vietnam-veteran OV-10s still had anything to offer, the military had to send them back to war. And lucky for testers, there's still plenty of war going on.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/09/why-is-america-using-these-antique-planes-to-fight-isis.html

Harald

USAF studies OV-10 for CAS, IW roles in theater

Key Points
•The Pentagon deployed the OV-10 in Southwest Asia for an extended user evaluation
•The test was designed to gauge whether light turbo-prop aircraft can efficiently increase airpower effectiveness in a COIN or IW environment

The Pentagon deployed Boeing (Rockwell) OV-10 counterinsurgency aircraft to Southwest Asia in early 2015 as part of an evaluation to determine if turboprop aircraft can improve co-ordination between aircrews and ground commanders, a spokesman for US Central Command (CENTCOM) said on 11 March.

"The OV-10 deployed to a location in Southwest Asia in support of Operation 'Inherent Resolve' as part of an extended user evaluation (EUE)," US Air Force (USAF) Captain Bryant Davis told IHS Jane's .

http://www.janes.com/article/58735/usaf-studies-ov-10-for-cas-iw-roles-in-theater