De landmacht van morgen

[Huzaar1]

Oké roger. Paging Huzaar; hoe realistisch is dit allemaal? Klinkt als wensdenken van een burger def watcher.

Ik weet hier niks van, maar de plannen kunnen in een CLAS koker zijn vormgegeven. Dat ik het niet ken is wellicht een feit doordat er geen additionele systemen bijkomen als de clas gewoon een brigade concept kopieert; zij het 43 x, zij het 13 x.  Dan hoeven we ook geen nieuwe systemen te normeren en in stand te houden, dus kost het ons geen capaciteit.

Wat nu wel speelt is dat we naast de uitwerking 'doorgroei naar 2%',  studies doen naar 'doorgroei 3 en 4 %' .

In laatstgenoemde kan het groeiconcept CLAS verstopt zitten. Dat is een aanname, maar ik denk dat die wel klopt. De financiering en beoogde budgettering is daarmee onderbouwd. Maar voor 4 brigades hebben we grofweg 2.5 keer zoveel CLAS munitie voorraad nodig, en brandstof, en reserveonderdelen. Dat kost een duit.

Snelle rekensom is dat wel op een defensie begroting van +45 miljard per jaar. Daar kan dat vast allemaal voor. Deze studies worden vooral gemaakt i.h.k.v extreme scenario's; zoals een vertrek van de VS uit de NAVO, of oog op directe confrontatie met Rusland / China of totaal escaleren van het Midden Oosten. Cq: daar is wat voor nodig voor de politiek ja zegt tegen dat bedrag.

Of alles past? In de huidige organisatie niet, in Nederland zou het wel kunnen maar het is logischer als die in DLD gaat zitten.  Nederland zou ook prima kunnen, wel nog duurder. Ik zou dan in Budel gaan zitten. Je kunt daar prima een brigade kwijt en er zijn genoeg oefenterreinen in de buurt.

[Zander]

52 Mech, okay.

Ik zie het niet zo snel gebeuren, maar ik begrijp de wens als die ook daadwerkelijk van CLAS af komt.
Volgens mij hebben we echter wat andere uitdagingen die CLAS eerst moet overwinnen.

Mocht het zo ver komen vraag ik me af waar 52 gelegerd gaat worden. Nederland is te klein om een 4e brigade te huisvesten met alle oefenmogelijkheden er omheen. Bergen-Hohne?

Gaan we dan weer naar een eigen divisiestructuur, en zijn is CLAS dan weer groot genoeg om op eigen benen te staan zonder dat we moeten aanhaken bij de Duitsers? Welke middelen komen er dan voor deze brigade? (Nieuwe CV90's oid, Leo 2a8 of MCGS?)

Ik zeg lange termijn wensen. (15+ jaar)

[Flyguy]

Oké roger. Paging Huzaar; hoe realistisch is dit allemaal? Klinkt als wensdenken van een burger def watcher.

[Master Mack]

4e brigade? Lijkt me stug als 2 van de 3 guide brigades bestaan uit slechts 2 bataljons en een halve lease constructie. En rondrijden in genie boxers en softtop MBs.

Er was toch iets met eerst de bestaande toko versterken.

Laten we inderdaad eerst maar eens zorgen voor het vullen van de huidige brigades met tanks bij 43X Horizontale vuurkracht bij 13X en meer brigade gebonden en onafhankelijke (bescherming civiele infra)luchtverdediging. Maar opzich is het niet slecht om een duidelijke toekomstvisie te hebben voor de KL waarin je aangeeft wat er nodig is om je taken binnen de NAVO en de landsverdediging naar behoren te kunnen uitvoeren. Dus eindelijk stappen we af van die "het halve minimum" gedachten. Top

[Parera]

Indien waar, welke brigade naam/nummer mag dan weer worden gereactiveerd?

De keuze is reuze   

Maar 52 Mech ligt voor de hand als ik kijk naar de indeling van deze brigade (2e gemechaniseerde brigade).

Die Paul Zweers zit denk ik hier op het forum. Boemboem 

Daar had ik al zo een vermoeden van ja

4e brigade? Lijkt me stug als 2 van de 3 guide brigades bestaan uit slechts 2 bataljons en een halve lease constructie. En rondrijden in genie boxers en softtop MBs.

Er was toch iets met eerst de bestaande toko versterken.

In de tweet staat ook dat dit een lange termijn wens/plan is van de KL. Dit zal ook niet morgen gerealiseerd zijn maar als we over enkele jaren weer op 2% of hoger zitten en de personeels bestanden weer aangevuld zijn moeten we dit makkelijk kunnen vullen. Zeker met het oog op een mogelijke terugkeer van de dienstplicht.

Ook staat in de tweet dat de invulling niet bekend is op dit moment, mogelijk word deze nieuwe brigade wel (deels) mobilisabel i.p.v. permanent.

[Flyguy]

4e brigade? Lijkt me stug als 2 van de 3 guide brigades bestaan uit slechts 2 bataljons en een halve lease constructie. En rondrijden in genie boxers en softtop MBs.

Er was toch iets met eerst de bestaande toko versterken.

[Huzaar1]

Die Paul Zweers zit denk ik hier op het forum. Boemboem 

[Sparkplug]

Interessant draadje op twitter over geruchten rondom de KL.

De KL zou plannen om weer te groeien naar 4 brigades: 2x gemechaniseerd 1x gemotoriseerd en 1x luchtmobiel.

Beide mech. zouden worden uitgerust met tanks.

https://twitter.com/JUitdeketting/status/1779570692171633067

Indien waar, welke brigade naam/nummer mag dan weer worden gereactiveerd?

[Parera]

Interessant draadje op twitter over geruchten rondom de KL.

De KL zou plannen om weer te groeien naar 4 brigades: 2x gemechaniseerd 1x gemotoriseerd en 1x luchtmobiel.

Beide mech. zouden worden uitgerust met tanks.

https://twitter.com/JUitdeketting/status/1779570692171633067

In het draadje ook een bericht over geruchten rondom 120 mm mortieren op cv90 en naar oude studie boxer 105/120 mm dfp.

[pz]

Kwam dit artikel tegen vandaag mbt vervanging 120mm mortieren landmacht. Behoeftestelling wordt hier uitgebreid toegelicht. Het artikel bevat veel tekst en foto's, teveel om hier te plaatsen. Hieronder de link.

https://www.dutchdefencepress.com/shoot-and-scoot/

Intro:
Mortieren maken al lange tijd een belangrijk deel uit van het grondgebonden vuursteunconcept van Defensie. Deze steilbaan-wapens voor relatief korte afstanden maken het mogelijk voor grondeenheden om snel en accuraat vuur op de vijand uit te brengen. Ook als deze nog niet binnen schootsafstand van direct vuur met andere wapens is of zich bijvoorbeeld ophoudt achter een dekking of in heuvelachtig terrein. In de huidige bewapening zit er dan ook een heel scala aan mortieren, traditioneel gezien voortkomend uit de gedachte dat elk niveau, peloton, compagnie, bataljon, zijn eigen vuursteun heeft. Op dit moment loopt er een verwervingstraject om de oude vertrouwde 120mm mortier en bijbehorende munitie te vervangen. In dezelfde verwerving wordt gezocht naar loitering munition die langere tijd boven het gevechtsveld kan blijven hangen om vervolgens waar nodig doelen uit te schakelen.

[Master Mack]

Goed dat de echte prioriteiten nu worden uitgesproken. LUA en Tanks voor CLAS op Prio.1., wat niets afdoet aan in mijn beleving deze volgorde. De behoefte van CZSK,CLSK(Maritiem) KMAR(militair)

[Umbert]

Air defense, tanks top Dutch military's wish list

Dutch top military leaders have a wish list for the next government: air defense, tanks and more military police.

More air defense systems is the number one priority, "no question about it," Chief of Defence Gen. Otto Eichelsheim said in an interview with broadcaster NPO on April 4, flanked by his top generals. NATO is also counting on the Dutch to contribute tanks and more medical capability to the alliance, the commander said.

After decades of cost cuts, the next government of the European Union's fifth-largest economy will have to boost defense spending beyond the NATO target of 2% of GDP to bring the military up to strength, according to Eichelsheim. Talks to form a new Dutch government are ongoing following elections in November, with the Cabinet of Prime Minister Mark Rutte in a caretaker role.

The Netherlands kicked off a defense budget hike in a 2022 policy paper, which allowed the armed forces to rebuild supplies and support roles that had been whittled down to such an extent that combat power couldn't be sustained or deployed long-term, according to Eichelsheim. "So we invested in that first."

"The next step has to be that you strengthen your combat power, while also still further building up your support capability," Eichelsheim said. "Even with 2% we'll still have to make choices. NATO has been asking more and more of us, the world is demanding more and more from us; 2% is just not enough."

The Netherlands lifted its 2024 defense budget to €21.4 billion ($ 23.2 billion), or 1.95% of GDP, from €15.4 billion in 2023 and €12.9 billion in 2022. In this year's budget, €7.9 billion is reserved for buying and maintenance of equipment.

Russia has managed to recover quickly from initial losses following the invasion of Ukraine, and has been building up its military, the Dutch commander said. "We worry a lot about the fact that they have that recovery power, and so we really have to make sure that we are fully ready for that. And we're just not there yet."

The top brass in a meeting around May last year concluded that "it's going to go wrong and we don't have much time," according to Eichelsheim. He said Dutch military command has identified the biggest needs and put in place plans to strengthen the armed forces, also in view of NATO demands, with the current military assets "not nearly enough."

Tanks "are very high on the wish list, but no political decision has yet been made," Royal Netherlands Army Commander Lt. Gen. Jan Swillens said, adding that a heavy-armor capability would be important for future deployments. Long-range precision artillery and air defense, "resources that ten or fifteen years ago we thought we'd never need again," are also high on the wish list, based on feedback from the war in Ukraine.

The Netherlands has been considering recreating its own tank battalion, having scrapped its heavy cavalry in 2011. The current defense budget doesn't cover the costs of setting up a tank battalion, and the next government will have to decide on how much extra money will go to defense, and whether any of that will be spent on tanks.

The big concern among the Dutch top brass is that the Netherlands won't be able to restore its military to full strength quickly enough in the face of an aggressive Russia, according to Lt Gen André Steur, head of the Royal Netherlands Air Force.

"Russia isn't the only threat, but if you look at how quickly they are now able to recover, to get back to full war strength, as they were on February 24, 2022, we are all moving too slowly, and you actually see that throughout the alliance," Steur said. "All of us here at the table want to prevent war. So the most important thing is that we're able to deter war."

The Netherlands will exercise in Poland with 4,500 troops this month, moving columns of equipment and personnel to Eastern Europe by road for the first time in years, and it no longer has enough military police to secure the columns, according to Swillens.

The Royal Marechaussee gendarmerie force, whose tasks include military police duties, is in the process of rebuilding to undo the damage of budget cuts, according to its commander Lt. Gen. Annelore Roelofs. "We really need more military police," Roelofs said. "As the military continues to grow, and that's going to happen, we need even more of that."

Should the Netherlands get involved in a war on Europe's eastern flanks, it will need gendarmerie forces to secure and protect forward-deployed units, said Eichelsheim. "We have the task, but we don't have the people for it. So we have to fill all that back in."

The smaller size of the Dutch armed forces makes sustaining a conflict harder, in a threat environment made more complex by Russia's aggression but also conflict in the Middle East and terrorism, said Vice Adm. René Tas, commander of the Royal Netherlands Navy. The increased defense budget has provided breathing space, as troops can at least be provided with sufficient ammunition and new gear, he said.

The Netherlands can't supply additional Patriot air-defense systems to Ukraine, as it is at the minimum deployment needed to protect Dutch ports, according to Eichelsheim. Amsterdam Airport Schiphol is the fourth-busiest airport in Europe, while Rotterdam is the continent's biggest maritime port. The Netherlands previously supplied two Patriot launchers to Ukraine, as well as training.

Eichelsheim said the allies supporting Ukraine will have to find a solution for the Patriot shortfall, by going though their stockpiles to see what systems can still be assembled. "We see how important that air defense is in the face of Russian Federation attacks."

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/04/05/air-defense-tanks-top-dutch-militarys-wish-list/

Hij zal dus ook wel iets in gedachte hebben zou zeggen bestellijst klaarmaken en bestellen. Zou niet lang te hoeven duren. Tevens zou ik dienstplicht invoeren om te beginnen een ieder die ook/of de NL nationaliteit heeft ouder dan 18 maar jonger als 25 zowel M/V.

[Harald]

Air defense, tanks top Dutch military's wish list

Dutch top military leaders have a wish list for the next government: air defense, tanks and more military police.

More air defense systems is the number one priority, "no question about it," Chief of Defence Gen. Otto Eichelsheim said in an interview with broadcaster NPO on April 4, flanked by his top generals. NATO is also counting on the Dutch to contribute tanks and more medical capability to the alliance, the commander said.

After decades of cost cuts, the next government of the European Union's fifth-largest economy will have to boost defense spending beyond the NATO target of 2% of GDP to bring the military up to strength, according to Eichelsheim. Talks to form a new Dutch government are ongoing following elections in November, with the Cabinet of Prime Minister Mark Rutte in a caretaker role.

The Netherlands kicked off a defense budget hike in a 2022 policy paper, which allowed the armed forces to rebuild supplies and support roles that had been whittled down to such an extent that combat power couldn't be sustained or deployed long-term, according to Eichelsheim. "So we invested in that first."

"The next step has to be that you strengthen your combat power, while also still further building up your support capability," Eichelsheim said. "Even with 2% we'll still have to make choices. NATO has been asking more and more of us, the world is demanding more and more from us; 2% is just not enough."

The Netherlands lifted its 2024 defense budget to €21.4 billion ($ 23.2 billion), or 1.95% of GDP, from €15.4 billion in 2023 and €12.9 billion in 2022. In this year's budget, €7.9 billion is reserved for buying and maintenance of equipment.

Russia has managed to recover quickly from initial losses following the invasion of Ukraine, and has been building up its military, the Dutch commander said. "We worry a lot about the fact that they have that recovery power, and so we really have to make sure that we are fully ready for that. And we're just not there yet."

The top brass in a meeting around May last year concluded that "it's going to go wrong and we don't have much time," according to Eichelsheim. He said Dutch military command has identified the biggest needs and put in place plans to strengthen the armed forces, also in view of NATO demands, with the current military assets "not nearly enough."

Tanks "are very high on the wish list, but no political decision has yet been made," Royal Netherlands Army Commander Lt. Gen. Jan Swillens said, adding that a heavy-armor capability would be important for future deployments. Long-range precision artillery and air defense, "resources that ten or fifteen years ago we thought we'd never need again," are also high on the wish list, based on feedback from the war in Ukraine.

The Netherlands has been considering recreating its own tank battalion, having scrapped its heavy cavalry in 2011. The current defense budget doesn't cover the costs of setting up a tank battalion, and the next government will have to decide on how much extra money will go to defense, and whether any of that will be spent on tanks.

The big concern among the Dutch top brass is that the Netherlands won't be able to restore its military to full strength quickly enough in the face of an aggressive Russia, according to Lt Gen André Steur, head of the Royal Netherlands Air Force.

"Russia isn't the only threat, but if you look at how quickly they are now able to recover, to get back to full war strength, as they were on February 24, 2022, we are all moving too slowly, and you actually see that throughout the alliance," Steur said. "All of us here at the table want to prevent war. So the most important thing is that we're able to deter war."

The Netherlands will exercise in Poland with 4,500 troops this month, moving columns of equipment and personnel to Eastern Europe by road for the first time in years, and it no longer has enough military police to secure the columns, according to Swillens.

The Royal Marechaussee gendarmerie force, whose tasks include military police duties, is in the process of rebuilding to undo the damage of budget cuts, according to its commander Lt. Gen. Annelore Roelofs. "We really need more military police," Roelofs said. "As the military continues to grow, and that's going to happen, we need even more of that."

Should the Netherlands get involved in a war on Europe's eastern flanks, it will need gendarmerie forces to secure and protect forward-deployed units, said Eichelsheim. "We have the task, but we don't have the people for it. So we have to fill all that back in."

The smaller size of the Dutch armed forces makes sustaining a conflict harder, in a threat environment made more complex by Russia's aggression but also conflict in the Middle East and terrorism, said Vice Adm. René Tas, commander of the Royal Netherlands Navy. The increased defense budget has provided breathing space, as troops can at least be provided with sufficient ammunition and new gear, he said.

The Netherlands can't supply additional Patriot air-defense systems to Ukraine, as it is at the minimum deployment needed to protect Dutch ports, according to Eichelsheim. Amsterdam Airport Schiphol is the fourth-busiest airport in Europe, while Rotterdam is the continent's biggest maritime port. The Netherlands previously supplied two Patriot launchers to Ukraine, as well as training.

Eichelsheim said the allies supporting Ukraine will have to find a solution for the Patriot shortfall, by going though their stockpiles to see what systems can still be assembled. "We see how important that air defense is in the face of Russian Federation attacks."

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/04/05/air-defense-tanks-top-dutch-militarys-wish-list/

[Sparkplug]

De Nationale Reserve zijn de BOA's vd landmacht ...

De Nationale Reserve is eerder vergelijkbaar met de vrijwillige brandweer en politievrijwilliger.

[Oorlogsvis]

De Nationale Reserve zijn de BOA's vd landmacht ...