Internationale ontwikkelingen op onderzeebootgebied.

[Parera]

Ja dat ondersteund toch alleen maar wat ik zeg?  

Ik hoop het, want als we straks genoodzaakt zijn om MDCN te integreren in de subs dan zie ik onze toekomstige oppervlakte schepen ook nog wel eens daarmee worden uitgerust. Ik hoop dat we het houden op Tomahawk want dat is een bewezen wapensysteem en voldoet volledig aan onze wensen. Dat kunnen we van MDCN niet zeggen.

[Benji87]

Dat denk ik niet, de australische en Nederlandse marine maken hele andere keuzes omdat ze hele andere plannen hebben. De gestopte voorziene integratie van toma op Collins staat totaal los van enige problematiek of uitdagingen met toma's op Orka's.

Tenslotte gaan de Aussies gegarandeerd tomas integreren in de nieuwe subs. Waarschijnlijk zijn met nieuwe stappen binnen dit project nieuwe inzichten ontstaan die zulke toetsingen en testen overbodig maken. Kan ik begrijpen, de nieuwe subs zullen volledig door VS worden ondersteund, dus ook wapensysteem integratie als de Toma.

In het artikel wordt gesproken dat de Amerikanen een negatief advies hebben gegeven op de intergratie van de tomahawks op de subs en dat de aussies in dit verhaal zijn meegegaan. Ik acht de kans vrij aannemelijk dat de Amerikanen dat advies ook aan ons af gaan geven.

Ja, worden waarschijnlijk Franse wapens op de Orka klasse, de Fransen spelen het spel met verzwaarde dobbelstenen.

Zo ver wil ik nog niet gaan maar het zegt wel wat over de gewenste integratie van de tomahawks op de walrus klasse

[Huzaar1]

Alleen worden de nieuwe subs voor Australië voorzien van een VLS en blijft het probleem met torpedobuis gelanceerde tomahawks bestaan.

Ja dat ondersteund toch alleen maar wat ik zeg?  

[Parera]

Dat denk ik niet, de australische en Nederlandse marine maken hele andere keuzes omdat ze hele andere plannen hebben. De gestopte voorziene integratie van toma op Collins staat totaal los van enige problematiek of uitdagingen met toma's op Orka's.

Tenslotte gaan de Aussies gegarandeerd tomas integreren in de nieuwe subs. Waarschijnlijk zijn met nieuwe stappen binnen dit project nieuwe inzichten ontstaan die zulke toetsingen en testen overbodig maken. Kan ik begrijpen, de nieuwe subs zullen volledig door VS worden ondersteund, dus ook wapensysteem integratie als de Toma.

Alleen worden de nieuwe subs voor Australië voorzien van een VLS en blijft het probleem met torpedobuis gelanceerde tomahawks bestaan.

[Huzaar1]

Dit is natuurlijk een behoorlijk teken aan de wand voor de intergratie van de tomahawk op de walrus klasse.

Dat denk ik niet, de australische en Nederlandse marine maken hele andere keuzes omdat ze hele andere plannen hebben. De gestopte voorziene integratie van toma op Collins staat totaal los van enige problematiek of uitdagingen met toma's op Orka's.

Tenslotte gaan de Aussies gegarandeerd tomas integreren in de nieuwe subs. Waarschijnlijk zijn met nieuwe stappen binnen dit project nieuwe inzichten ontstaan die zulke toetsingen en testen overbodig maken. Kan ik begrijpen, de nieuwe subs zullen volledig door VS worden ondersteund, dus ook wapensysteem integratie als de Toma.

[Umbert]

Ja, worden waarschijnlijk Franse wapens op de Orka klasse, de Fransen spelen het spel met verzwaarde dobbelstenen.

Nou hangt er van af of we het hard op papier hebben staan, anders zou ik zeggen dit is wat we vroegen jullie zeiden het kan laat het maar zien dat je het kunt voor jullie offerte prijs, want heb het gevoel dat ze het allang wisten dat het hem niet zou worden, maar gedacht hebben die sneeuwen we wel onder, vandaar die extreem lagere offerte prijs, dat zal wel de prijs voor het invoegen van de niet leverbare capaciteit zijn.

[Kornet43]

Dit is natuurlijk een behoorlijk teken aan de wand voor de intergratie van de tomahawk op de walrus klasse.

Ja, worden waarschijnlijk Franse wapens op de Orka klasse, de Fransen spelen het spel met verzwaarde dobbelstenen.

[Benji87]

Australia Proceeds With Collins Life Extension, Drops Tomahawk And Optronic Mast

Collins-life extension narrows in scope, subject to funding pressures and American advice on Tomahawk-integration......

Dit is natuurlijk een behoorlijk teken aan de wand voor de intergratie van de tomahawk op de walrus klasse.

[Harald]

Portuguese Diesel-Electric AIP Submarine Just Patrolled Under The Arctic Ice

The Arpão is the first Portuguese sub to operate below the ice and could herald patrols by other advanced conventionally powered NATO boats.

A conventionally powered Portuguese attack submarine has completed a rare voyage under the Arctic ice. As well as being a first-of-its-kind mission for the Portuguese Navy, the deployment underlines the growing importance of the Arctic theater to NATO's submarine fleet. Although it's nuclear-powered boats that traditionally dominate in this challenging area of operations, the Portuguese deployment demonstrates that conventionally powered submarines have a role to play here too.



https://www.twz.com/news-features/portuguese-diesel-electric-aip-submarine-just-patrolled-under-the-arctic-ice

[Ace1]

Willen wij deze versie ook hebben voor de nieuwe boten?

" Collins would have to use the torpedo-tube launched variant of TLAM, which, as Naval News understands, has been out of production for over 12 years.

Ja klopt meerdere landen hebben interesse in deze versie.

[pz]

Willen wij deze versie ook hebben voor de nieuwe boten?

" Collins would have to use the torpedo-tube launched variant of TLAM, which, as Naval News understands, has been out of production for over 12 years.

[Harald]

Australia Proceeds With Collins Life Extension, Drops Tomahawk And Optronic Mast

Collins-life extension narrows in scope, subject to funding pressures and American advice on Tomahawk-integration.

 Home»News»Australia Proceeds With Collins Life Extension, Drops Tomahawk And Optronic Mast
Four Collins class submarines at sea.
Collins-class submarines HMAS Collins, Farncomb, Sheean and Dechaineux at sea in Western Australia. Image Australian Defence.
Australia Proceeds With Collins Life Extension, Drops Tomahawk And Optronic Mast
Collins-life extension narrows in scope, subject to funding pressures and American advice on Tomahawk-integration.
Alex Luck  06 Jun 2024

The Australian government in an official announcement on June 5 declared their intention to proceed with the next phase of the life extension for Collins-class submarines dubbed "Life Of Type Extension" (LOTE). The Collins-class comprising six boats represents the current submarine capability of the Royal Australian Navy.

Life extension to keep Collins operational for two more decades
Collins originally commissioned with RAN, after significant development troubles, in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Australia then pursued a successor dubbed Attack-class under its SEA 1000 program. That effort however saw cancellation in 2021. Instead Canberra is now determined to introduce nuclear powered submarines in cooperation with the USA and UK under AUKUS. Due to the resulting significant gap for a timely replacement Collins will now have to serve throughout the 2030s and possibly into the 2040s. To enable this plan, the design requires significant life extension measures keeping the boats operational exceeding 40 years of service.

In this context all six boats are to undergo a package of modernization including propulsion, weapons and sensors. However the new announcement now shelves the previous plan of integrating Tomahawk land attack cruise missiles (TLAM) and a new optronic mast produced by French supplier Safran.

Torpedo tube launched Tomahawk unfeasible
RAN intended to equip Collins with the Tomahawk missile for providing additional "strike and deterrence capability". The phrase is ironically again used in the June 5 statement dropping the capability. Australia took this decision based on "advice from Defence, in consultation with the United States, that adding Tomahawk cruise missile capability to the Collins class submarines is not viable and does not represent value for money." Collins would have to use the torpedo-tube launched variant of TLAM, which, as Naval News understands, has been out of production for over 12 years.

Pursuing this plan therefore therefore necessitates renewed production through a meaningful bulk order. Alternatively Australia would need to buy suitable weapons from the existing stockpile of the US Navy. The USN still operates tube-launched Tomahawk from Seawolf-class SSN. The UK is another existing user, operating the type on Astute SSN. The Netherlands previously intended to modify its old Walrus-class SSK for use of TLAM. The Dutch Navy was furthermore planning to use the tube-launched TLAM also on their Walrus-successor dubbed Orka. Recent Dutch media reports suggest this plan is in trouble over American unwillingness to approve integration on the French-designed Orka-class. Dutch officials have dismissed related problems in response.

Modern optronics dropped from LOTE
In addition the announcement clarified that the Safran-developed optronic mast system will not be part of LOTE. Safran originally developed the Australian variant for use on the cancelled Attack-class submarines. The shifting Australian attitude on using the optronic mast for Collins was apparent already in a Senates Estimates exchange with ADF officials back in February. At the time senator Jacqui Lambie grilled Defence-officials including the Chief of Navy Vice Admiral Hammond on expenses incurred for the mast. According to the estimates hearings in February and June, Defence has already spend AU$33 millions on the optronic mast before deciding to abandon the effort integrating it in the Collins.

Other aspects of LOTE continue to be more obscure. As indicated above, the total package also includes modernisation of the diesel engines, considered the top priority for LOTE. In addition work on the electric motor, sonar and hull regeneration measures are also key aspects. The first boat to undergo LOTE is HMAS Farncomb, second of the class. Recent media reports highlighted the discovery of "unprecedented levels of corrosion" on both Farncomb and her sistership HMAS Sheean. Government officials have yet to clarify how these issues will impact the overall timeframe and scope of the life-extension for Collins going forward.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/06/collins-life-extension-goes-ahead-australia-drops-tomahawk/

[Harald]

Dus geen upgrade voor de Collins boten met Tomahawks !

[pz]

Tomahawk missiles and optronics axed from Royal Australian Navy Collins submarine upgrade

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/naval-warfare/tomahawk-missiles-and-optronics-axed-from-royal-australian-navy-collins-submarine-upgrade/?utm_source=rss-twitter&utm_medium=Sendible&utm_campaign=RSS

Australia's Collins-class consists of six submarines commissioned between 1996 and 2003 based on the Type 471 design from Swedish shipbuilder Kockums. New nuclear-powered submarines will replace the Collins-class in the 2030s.

USNS John Lewis to return to active service following PSA USNS John Lewis to return to active service following PSA
L3Harris to provide communications for new Canadian ships L3Harris to provide communications for new Canadian ships
Sailing into the Future: Fincantieri's Digital Twin Revolution Sailing into the Future: Fincantieri's Digital Twin Revolution
US supplies latest vessel to strengthen Caribbean and Central American security US supplies latest vessel to strengthen Caribbean and Central American security
The Australian Government has outlined plans worth AUD4 billion (US$2.6 billion) to AUD5 billion to upgrade and extend the life of the Royal Australian Navy's (RAN's) six Collins-class submarines with the HMAS Farncombe going into dock in 2026.

A previously announced optronics upgrade has been scrapped and it has been decided that Tomahawk missiles will not be added to the boats.

According to Defence Australia, the government department responsible for defence, the optronics upgrade "will not proceed following advice that it would have added complexity and risk to the life-of-type extension programme [and that] adding Tomahawk cruise missile capability is not viable and does not represent value for money".

"These decisions will reduce risk for the Collins class programme and will help maximise availability as we transition to our future nuclear-powered submarine capability," the Defence Australia stated.

The department added that the SSN AUKUS nuclear-powered conventionally-armed submarines which will replace Collins-class will likewise not be fitted with the optronics system.

The Virginia-class nuclear-powered submarines Australia will receive in the early 2030s will come with the Tomahawk as standard equipment.

Tomahawk cruise missiles will also be used by RAN's Hobart-class destroyers and the Government has agreed in-principle to fit the Hunter-class frigates with Tomahawks, subject to a feasibility study.

[Harald]

Italy Set To Increase Submarine Force, Develop New U212 NFS EVO

The Italian Navy (Marine Militare) is working to increase its submarine force with two submarines of a new class known as "U212 NFS EVO" which will be larger than the NFS boats currently under production.


https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/U212-NFS-CNE-2024-1.jpg

During the Defence Leaders Combined Naval Event (CNE) 2024 in Farnborough, UK, the Marina Militare unveiled its submarine fleet developments from now to 2050.

In a his presentation titled "Italian Navy perspective for upcoming submarines", Commander Stefano Oliva, Submarine Research & Development Office at Italian Navy General Staff, provided the audience with the first details about the future developments of the submarine force, aiming to increase the fleet from 8 to 10 boats by 2036. By then, the Italian Navy submarine fleet would consists of

- upgraded U212A,
- U212 NFS (Near Future Submarine)
- U212 NFS EVO (Evolved)
The production of a new generation submarine (NGS) would start after 2040. The Italian Navy also launched the path to develop a large displacement autonomous underwater vehicle (LDAUV).

.../...

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/06/italy-set-to-increase-submarine-force-develop-new-u212-nfs-evo/#prettyPhoto