Nieuwe ontwikkelingen op tank/gun boat gebied

Gestart door Ace1, 04/12/2016 | 11:05 uur

Ace1


Ace1

#17
This Hybrid Tank-Boat Is Either Pure Genius or Pure Folly

The X-18 Fire Support Vessel has a massive gun, can carry 20 troops—and has virtually no armor plating.



In the "this could be a great idea/this could be a terrible idea" department, the Indonesian shipbuilding company PT Ludin has invented a hybrid tank-boat. Capable of sailing at up to 30 knots and blasting targets with a 105-millimeter gun, it's officially named the X-18 Fire Support Vessel. For obvious reasons, everyone—including the manufacturer—just calls it "Tank Boat".

It's no surprise the Tank Boat was invented in Indonesia. The country consists of over 18,307 islands, and ships and marines figure heavily in its defense. A ship that can operate closely with ground forces and provide heavy gun support would be an ideal addition to the Indonesian military.

The Tank Boat is 18 meters long, has a crew of four and can carry up to 20 additional troops. It can also embark an inflatable boat for landing operations. Armament consists of a Cockerill 105-millimeter gun and a remote-controlled .50 caliber machine gun.

Water jets propel the tank boat up to a speedy 30 knots. The X-18 has a range of 900 nautical miles, the distance from Washington D.C. to Miami.

Tank Boat could operate in island chains, riverine deltas, off shallow water coastlines, and urban areas adjacent to the sea. Its shallow .8 meter draught means it can get very close to shore without running aground.

One issue with Tank Boat: the need to make it float means it is very lightly armored, providing protection only up to 7.62-millimeter machine rounds. In that respect, the Tank Boat is indeed much more like a boat than a tank.

At the same time, it is expected to engage targets lethal enough to require a 105-millimeter howitzer to destroy. And it can sink. You can see the potential problem here.

The X-18 has yet to be built but has already generated an order of 100 units by the United Arab Emirates. Most of the UAE's oil holdings and population, including the glittering city of Dubai, are on the coastline. The country is separated from its much larger neighbor Iran by only 40 miles, and has intervened militarily in Yemen's civil war.

Check out concept art and a model of the X-18 tank boat:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a17606/tank-boat-x18-genius-or-folly/


jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Ace1 op 11/12/2016 | 15:40 uur
Indo Defence 2016: Tank boat dominance moves up river


Hoeveel kan je meenemen a/b van het JSS en/of de LPS's?

Ace1

Indo Defence 2016: Tank boat dominance moves up river

The new X-18 Tank Boat built by Indonesian shipbuilder PT Lundin, named Antasena, is expected to begin firing trials next year.

An actual-sized model is on display at the Indo Defence exhibition. Antansena combines the versatility of a lightweight catamaran with the power of a 105mm gun from CMI Defence, one of Lundin's partners.

The Indonesian MoD has taken a real interest in the system. Widjajanto, the chief commercial officer at PT Pindad – the other partner of Lundin – said that the Minister of Defence has expressed interest in developing a new specialist 'swamp battalion' that can traverse the numerous Indonesian waterways and thinks the craft can fit this role.

Widjajanto added that there were discussions with a Middle East country about the vehicle. UAE has previously expressed an interest in the vehicle.

First announced in May 2015, the X-18 Antasena has now completed structural design and engineering phases. CEO of PT Lundin, John Lundin, told Shephard that the company has also run the vessel in a test tank to prove the concept and was ready to start building and get a prototype in the water fitted with the CMI 3105 modular turret that can fire from 30mm to 105mm calibre munitions.

Lundin said the X-18 is technically feasible using a catamaran hull made from advanced composite materials and using the 105mm turret from CMI Defence.

The 40t boat ultimately has three functions. The first was to have a brown water/riverine craft but secondly to also has a green water/littoral capability to work close to the shore to support amphibious landings on a large scale as well giving firepower along the waterways and in very shallow water.

Instead of having large warships with small guns and trying to get close to the shore, the concept is to put larger calibre guns on smaller vessels to provide fire support.

'What is unique about the CMI gun is it has 42° elevation so that when an amphibious landing reaches stage two on the shore it can beach land and provide an artillery function to back up the troops. CMI as far as we know is the only one that can offer this dual functionality,' Lundin said.

The third role is as a troop transporter/logistics craft. X-18 Antasena has a crew of six but can take up to 20 troops and logistics supplies and in the same sense could be used in a medical evacuation role if required.

The main challenge in carrying a heavy gun on a lightweight boat is having good enough stabilisation. The catamaran hull with a hydrofoil (underwater wings) takes away a lot of the stability issues. Along with a good gyrostabilisation system from a vehicle, a relatively small boat can support a larger calibre gun and all additional personnel and logistics loads.

Lundin argued that a turret on a vehicle moving over land actually moves a lot more than when compared to a turret on a waterborne platform.

CMI technology has been able to manage the recoil forces of the gun, Jean-Luc Maurange, president of CMI Defence, told Shephard that 'although the gun is large calibre the recoil forces that are transported from the weapon to the boat are massively lower than a traditional tank gun'.

Therefore when doing composite materials engineering the forces they have to contend with are of a magnitude less making it more feasible to support a bigger gun.

The other major challenge alongside the stability issue was the marinisation of the 105mm gun and turret for maritime operations. CMI has used different materials, adding corrosion protection sealing for the electronics. Maurange said this was the major part of the work that they had to do.

Furthermore, the tower structure below the turret, which usually goes deep down into a standard naval vessel and includes the basket and ammunition handling and storage, is much less on the X-18.

Maurange said that the CMI gun uses an autoloader with a bussle, which means that the depth that the turret extends into the boat is an order of magnitude lower and permits the architecture for the craft. It can store 32 shells in two rows of 16 and these are stored below the waterline.

The armour package is 7.62mm protection for the crew areas and 12.7mm for frontal protection. Lundin said that during beach landings the protection systems often use 12.7mm so this will offer extra reinforcement although weight restrictions means that it can be provided all around.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps-news/indo-defence-2016-tank-boat-dominance-moves-river/


Ace1

Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 11/12/2016 | 14:36 uur
Zeker... maar het doet niets af aan het feit dat 2 van de 4 in de mottenballenvloot liggen en dat er wederom discussie over deze schepen is.

Maar terug naar het onderwerp tank/gunboaten.

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Ace1 op 11/12/2016 | 14:30 uur
Ik heb begrepen dat het instand houden van de  Iowa slagschepen te duur was en een gebrek aan onderdelen en veel info van deze schepen is terug te vinden op internet.

Zeker... maar het doet niets af aan het feit dat 2 van de 4 in de mottenballenvloot liggen en dat er wederom discussie over deze schepen is.


Ace1

Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 04/12/2016 | 19:41 uur
De discussie om de Iowa slagschepen uit de mottenballen te halen is blijkbaar weer nieuw leven in geblazen, of het tot iets leidt is weer een ander verhaal.

The last of the Iowas returned to mothballs shortly after the Gulf War. Missouri and New Jersey soon became national war monuments, while Iowa and Wisconsin remained in serviceable condition, pending any future decision to return them to service. Advocates for a return to service argued that the Marine Corps required the gunfire support that only the battleships could provide. In the end, the Zumwalt-class destroyers would offer a similar capability, meaning that Iowa and Wisconsin could finally retire to permanent berths in Los Angeles and Norfolk, respectively.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-americas-battleships-almost-became-part-aircraft-carrier-16819?page=2

Ik heb begrepen dat het instand houden van de  Iowa slagschepen te duur was en een gebrek aan onderdelen en veel info van deze schepen is terug te vinden op internet.

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

#11
Citaat van: Poleme op 04/12/2016 | 19:14 uur
Na WO 2 gingen de Iowa slagschepen in de mottenballen.
Echter, er bleek dat er toch behoefte was aan (zeer) zware vuursteun.
En die kunnen de Iowa slagschepen leveren met hun 46 cm kanons die granaten afvuren die even zwaar zijn als een Volkswagen Kever.
Helaas zijn deze varende 'sloopkogels' veel te oud, te duur en te beperkt in hun takenpakket.

De discussie om de Iowa slagschepen uit de mottenballen te halen is blijkbaar weer nieuw leven in geblazen, of het tot iets leidt is weer een ander verhaal.

The last of the Iowas returned to mothballs shortly after the Gulf War. Missouri and New Jersey soon became national war monuments, while Iowa and Wisconsin remained in serviceable condition, pending any future decision to return them to service. Advocates for a return to service argued that the Marine Corps required the gunfire support that only the battleships could provide. In the end, the Zumwalt-class destroyers would offer a similar capability, meaning that Iowa and Wisconsin could finally retire to permanent berths in Los Angeles and Norfolk, respectively.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-americas-battleships-almost-became-part-aircraft-carrier-16819?page=2

ARM-WAP

Citaat van: Poleme op 04/12/2016 | 19:14 uur
...
Nou kan het Multi Rocket Launch System (MRLS) ook GPS geleide raketten met een kaliber van 227 mm lanceren die een 200 ponds / 90 kg zware lading hebben en die reiken dan minimaal 15 tot maximaal 70 km ver.
Alleen dan moet dit systeem wel zeewaardig gemaakt worden.  Want kan het in de huidige vorm wel tegen zout water en Electro-Magnetische interferentie ?
De Russen en Chinezen hebben wel wat MLRS van 122 mm geinstalleerd op landingsschepen en korvetten.

De Duitse marine had oorspronkelijk het plan opgevat om een MLRS te "navaliseren" en te plaatsen op hun F-125-klasse
Hetzelfde met een 155mm kanon, project MONARC.
Beide plannen werden afgevoerd...

Poleme

Na WO 2 gingen de Iowa slagschepen in de mottenballen.
Echter, er bleek dat er toch behoefte was aan (zeer) zware vuursteun.
En die kunnen de Iowa slagschepen leveren met hun 46 cm kanons die granaten afvuren die even zwaar zijn als een Volkswagen Kever.
Helaas zijn deze varende 'sloopkogels' veel te oud, te duur en te beperkt in hun takenpakket.

Dus kwam er via wat omwegen de Zumwalt kruiser met 2 keer 155 mm kanons die 10 schoten per minuut afvuren en hebben de beschikking over een voorraad van 750 granaten.
Critici vinden deze bewapening echter te licht vergeleken met die van de Iowa klasse.
En ik moet zomaar eens terug denken aan Vietnam veteranen die blij waren dat ze konden beschikken over nauwkeurige 8 inch / 203 mm M-110 houwitsers die 200 pond / 90 kg zware projectielen af konden vuren.  Als er bunkers moesten worden uitgeschakeld, dan bleek 155 mm geschut te licht en 175 mm M-107 kanon te onnauwkeurig.

Nou kan het Multi Rocket Launch System (MRLS) ook GPS geleide raketten met een kaliber van 227 mm lanceren die een 200 ponds / 90 kg zware lading hebben en die reiken dan minimaal 15 tot maximaal 70 km ver.
Alleen dan moet dit systeem wel zeewaardig gemaakt worden.  Want kan het in de huidige vorm wel tegen zout water en Electro-Magnetische interferentie ?
Nulla tenaci invia est via - Voor de doorzetter is geen weg onbegaanbaar.

Ace1

Citaat van: Sparkplug op 04/12/2016 | 12:04 uur
Daar ben ik het zeker mee eens. Waar ik eerder op doelde, is de brown-water navy. Het lijkt mij dat zo'n tank boat hier beter op zijn plaats is.

Tuurlijk zie ik het nut wel in van snelle boats voor een brown water navy maar het nut van een kanon zie ik niet echt in zie meer in de mogelijkheden van missiles die een grotere bereik hebben.

Sparkplug

Citaat van: Ace1 op 04/12/2016 | 11:42 uur
Persoonlijk van ik de Zumwalt class destroyer juist een moderne versie van de  Monitor.

Daar ben ik het zeker mee eens. Waar ik eerder op doelde, is de brown-water navy. Het lijkt mij dat zo'n tank boat hier beter op zijn plaats is.
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

Ace1

#6
Citaat van: Sparkplug op 04/12/2016 | 11:29 uur
Het lijkt wel een moderne versie van de Monitor uit de Amerikaanse burgeroorlog of de gunboats uit de Vietnam oorlog.

Persoonlijk vindt ik de Zumwalt class destroyer juist een moderne versie van de  Monitor.

Sparkplug

Het lijkt wel een moderne versie van de Monitor uit de Amerikaanse burgeroorlog of de gunboats uit de Vietnam oorlog.
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

Ace1