Internationale ontwikkelingen op onderzeebootgebied.

Gestart door Zeewier, 21/04/2017 | 10:51 uur

Harald

Wat mij opviel aan het "plaatje" van de Dreadnought klasse is de Sail, de vorm ervan !
Het schuinoplopende voorzijde is ook al bij meerdere onderzeeboten te zien, maar is duidelijk een voordeel , minder "drag" en sonarreflectie.

Zo'n schuinoplopende voorzijde van de sail hebben we eerder gezien in het plaatje van Saab/Damen, dus daar zal ook wel enige kern van waarheid in zitten.





Huzaar1

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion" US secmindef - Jed Babbin"

Harald

First Submarine To Use New Stealth Technology

The Royal Navy's new Dreadnought Class submarine promises to be the stealthiest yet. The first two boats, HMS Dreadnought and HMS Valiant, are already under construction. They are destined to take over Britain's nuclear deterrent from the 2030s. They incorporate significant changes in the design compared to other types.



The adage that stealth is a submarine's main defense is true today and tomorrow. Speed, depth and countermeasures can all help a submarine escape, but not being seen in the first place is the best way to survive. So it is no surprise that the submarines being built today are going to be stealthier than the ones already in service. Certainly in leading 'nuclear navies' like the U.S. Navy, French Navy and Russian Navy.

And naturally Britain's Royal Navy. Their new Dreadnought Class, currently under construction, includes innovative features which promise to take stealth to a new level.

Four Dreadnought Class submarines are being built to replace the current fleet of Vanguard Class boats. They will be armed with Trident D5 missiles to continue the United Kingdom's continuous at-sea deterrent. The new class will be slightly larger, mainly to incorporate a number of new stealth features. In the underwater arena, being stealthy principally means being quiet, so we can expect the new boats to be the quietest yet.

The Quiet Game: Royal Navy Stealth

The Royal Navy's emphasis on stealth is already visible in the external appearance of their submarines. Since the 1980s submarines have been fitted sound reducing 'anechoic' tiles. And the current generation Astute Class has the anechoic coating designed in. This leads to a better fit and optimal performance compared to adding the tiles after it is built.

The Astute's hull is completely covered in anechoic tiles. You can see several types of tiles placed on the hull, sometimes in layers, to optimally reduce the target echo strength. Added to this there is a distinct chine running around the bow and the upper hull and sail (fin) are angled to reduce sonar reflections.

Radical New Hull Design

The Dreadnought Class takes this even further. The official graphics used by the builder, BAE Systems, shows the chine running all the way along the hull. This is a strong hint to a completely new style of submarine design. A thin outer hull, like an extended casing, entirely covers the regular cylindrical inner hull. This allows the sloping sides to extend right down the hull instead of being limited to the upper hull.

Dreadnought's outer hull will be much lighter than the true 'double hull' construction typical of Russian submarines. And its purpose is different. We know from the common missile compartment, which will be the same as is used on the U.S. Navy's Columbia Class, that the submarine hull remains the single-hull type. This means that it has its strengthening rings (called frames) on the inside. Russian boats have these frames on the outside, between the two hulls, and use the outer hull as part of their structure. On Dreadnought the outer hull is about stealth.

As well as being angled to deflect incoming active sonar, it will be coated with anechoic tiles. And it is a safe bet that the anechoic coatings will extend to the inside, in the flooded area between the inner and outer hulls.

Some other submarines are also adopting this new take on a double-hull submarine. The German designed Type-212CD will include an even more visible angled outer hull. There is no suggestion that the British design is borrowing from the German boat however. And the complex multi-layer anechoic treatment is likely unique.

The outer hull will also present some advantages, creating more space under the casing. We can speculate that this could accommodate future sensors, uncrewed underwater vehicles (UUVs) and countermeasures. It also seems likely that the boat's flank array sonars will be mounted flush with the outer hull. This will be a cleaner set0up to the current British and American boats which have them added as patches.

'Built with pride in Barrow'- the latest piece of Dreadnought makes a move. Four Dreadnought-Class submarines will be built in Barrow to replace the Vanguard-Class that are currently in service with the Royal Navy. #Submarines #Cumbria @RoyalNavy @SamPlum4 @cumbrialep pic.twitter.com/I1pWxNQ5aB
— BAE Systems Maritime (@BAES_Maritime) July 6, 2020

And There Is More...

Other improvements to stealth will be internal. For many years, and still in some other leading navies, the main focus for making the submarine stealthy was in make the propulsion quieter. Royal Navy boats are already considered very quiet in this regard. But the Dreadnought will incorporate new Turbo-Electric drive.

Turbo-electric drives use the nuclear reactor to generate electricity. This powers an electric motor which drives the propulsor. This should be quieter than driving the propeller shaft directly. While turbo-electric drives have been used aboard nuclear submarines before, this (together with the U.S. Navy's Columbia Class) will be the first time it has been used on serial production boats. And on the Dreadnought it will be driving an improved, quieter, pumpjet propulsor.

Like the stealthiest existing submarines Dreadnought will feature ways to protect against electromagnetic detection and tracking. And we can speculate that it's outer surface will be a different color to previous versions. Possibly blue, to improve visual stealth when near the surface. Although that is less of a concern in the SSBN's natural habitat in deep waters of the North Atlantic region.

Dreadnought is a massive undertaking for UK industry. But research and investment in submarine technologies, over many years, should pay off. Of course a lot of this will not be confirmed until the submarines are rolled out of the shed. There is a natural tendency to secrecy surrounding submarine design. And often features are added or subtracted during construction, often for cost reasons. However, based on what we know currently, expect the Dreadnought Class to take stealth to the next level.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/11/first-submarine-to-use-new-stealth-technology/?nowprocket=1

Harald

Aussies To Pick 'Mature' Nuke Sub Design; Is UK's Astute Class Frontrunner?

Analyst Tim Walton thinks it'd be wise for Australia to field other, complementary undersea warfare capabilities such as "the Transformational Reliable Acoustic Path System and mobile sensors such as Wave Gliders with towed arrays to inexpensively monitor straits and ocean areas."

In light of remarks by the top Australian admiral in charge of the plan to buy nuclear powered attack submarines, the British Astute design looks like it may be the frontrunner over an American capability.

The head of Australia's nuclear submarine taskforce, Vice Adm. Jonathan Mead, told a Senate committee last week that his country intends to select a "mature design" for its nuclear submarine, to be built under the AUKUS security partnership, as reported by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

"It is our intention that when we start the build program, the design will be mature and there will be a production run already in existence," Mead told a hearing in Canberra about what Australia calls "estimates," which is basically their term for the budget.

..../....

https://breakingdefense.com/2021/11/aussies-to-pick-mature-nuke-sub-design-is-uks-astute-class-frontrunner/

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Huzaar1 op 31/10/2021 | 16:35 uur
Wellicht is samen met canada optrekken het beste plan maar die lui maken overal een potje van.

Het is idd bizar hoe men in Canada met haar defensie(industrie) omgaat. Ik zie ze dan op dist dossier (als NL zou kiezen voor Saab-Damen) als onderaannemer.

Huzaar1

Wellicht is samen met canada optrekken het beste plan maar die lui maken overal een potje van.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion" US secmindef - Jed Babbin"

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Parera op 31/10/2021 | 08:47 uur
Ja dit kan een zeer interessante combinatie zijn voor zowel de KM als voor de RCN. De Canadezen hebben net als onze marine de voorkeur voor Amerikaanse (onderzeeboot) wapens.
In het laatste ''officiele'' document van de RCN rondom onderzeeboten sprak men van 12 onderzeeboten ( 6 voor de atlantische & 6 voor de grote oceaan) dat aantal is wat mij betreft een prachtig streven maar niet echt haalbaar. Ik ga er vanuit dat de Canadezen uit gaan komen op een behoefte van 6 tot 8 onderzeeboten. Op het moment dat ze (1 op 1) aansluiten bij onze vWalrus kan dit een grote schaal korting opleveren voor beide landen. Ook onze marine zou behoefte hebben aan 6 boten maar dat zie ik helemaal niet snel gebeuren.

Het is een kans voor Nederland, het biedt een samenwerkingsmogelijkheid voor beide landen of voor Canada een boot van de plank.

Canadese wensen en eisen zijn vergelijkbaar met die van Nederland, we halen er slechts maximaal voordeel uit als Nederland de knoop door hakt voor Saab-Damen. Kiest Nederland voor een Franse of Duitse oplossing en de Canadese zouden deze volgen dan heeft dit slechts een positieve invloed op de exploitatie van het nieuwe model en/of een reductie in aanschafprijs (afhankelijk van het tijdstip van de keuze).

Parera

Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 30/10/2021 | 22:42 uur
A Canadian Patrol Submarine: What are the Options?

"the submarine design the Dutch select for the replacement of their four Walrus-class submarines
should beof particular interest to Canada".

https://www.navalassoc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Jolin-Submarines.pdf

Ja dit kan een zeer interessante combinatie zijn voor zowel de KM als voor de RCN. De Canadezen hebben net als onze marine de voorkeur voor Amerikaanse (onderzeeboot) wapens.
In het laatste ''officiele'' document van de RCN rondom onderzeeboten sprak men van 12 onderzeeboten ( 6 voor de atlantische & 6 voor de grote oceaan) dat aantal is wat mij betreft een prachtig streven maar niet echt haalbaar. Ik ga er vanuit dat de Canadezen uit gaan komen op een behoefte van 6 tot 8 onderzeeboten. Op het moment dat ze (1 op 1) aansluiten bij onze vWalrus kan dit een grote schaal korting opleveren voor beide landen. Ook onze marine zou behoefte hebben aan 6 boten maar dat zie ik helemaal niet snel gebeuren.

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

A Canadian Patrol Submarine: What are the Options?

"the submarine design the Dutch select for the replacement of their four Walrus-class submarines
should beof particular interest to Canada".

https://www.navalassoc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Jolin-Submarines.pdf

Huzaar1

South China Sea: experts still in dark over what smashed into US submarine


USS Connecticut photographed moored in Guam with part of its nose removed, suggesting head-on collision with object, experts say
The submarine's location the day after the incident means it could have suffered the damage near the Paracel Islands, they say

Voor volledige artikel zie:

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3154158/south-china-sea-experts-still-dark-over-what-smashed-us

Volledige artikel niet zichtbaar maar er schijnt een foto te zijn gemaakt van de sub die heel wat mist.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion" US secmindef - Jed Babbin"

Mourning

Zeker, zeker. Aan de andere kant ze maakten wel actief onderdeel uit van de Australische tender en werden voor vrijwel het hele proces gezien als de gedoodverfde winnaar.
"The only thing necessary for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"- Edmund Burke
"War is the continuation of politics by all other means", Carl von Clausewitz, Vom Kriege/On War (1830).

Mourning

Citaat van: Thomasen op 19/10/2021 | 11:38 uur
Wordt zeker een interessante competitie.
Opvallend dat de AMUR wordt aangeboden, die het tot nu toe altijd aflegt tegen de Kilo. De Kilo is qua formaat ook meer gelijk met de andere aanbieders.

Dat is natuurlijk wel een sterk verkoop argument. Al werken de Russen (naar verluid) met de Kalina ook aan AIP, dus mogelijk dat de AMUR en Kalina dan meer op elkaar gaan lijken.

Ik vind het eigenlijk wel opvallend dat bijv. een Japan niet veel harder aan de weg aan het timmeren is met bijv. een verbeterde Soryu of iets van dien orde.
"The only thing necessary for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"- Edmund Burke
"War is the continuation of politics by all other means", Carl von Clausewitz, Vom Kriege/On War (1830).

ARM-WAP

Citaat van: ARM-WAP op 19/10/2021 | 11:08 uur
The 4 Submarines Competing For The Indian Navy's P-75I Program
Gaat interessant worden:
Het verworpen project van de Fransen tegen dat van de Spanjaarden...
Een vertrouwde Rus die hoogstwaarschijnlijk niet veel technologische vernieuwing brengt...
En een Koreaan.

ARM-WAP

The 4 Submarines Competing For The Indian Navy's P-75I Program
The Indian Navy's P-75I submarines will be larger and much more potent than the Kalvari Class now entering service. They will be the bedrock of India's submarine fleet at a time when the strategic focus is leaning towards China as well as the traditional adversary, Pakistan. There are 4 contenders.

They are currently submitting design proposals to the Indian Government. Whatever the outcome the boats are expected to all be built in India. So the deal will factor in political and industrial considerations as well as naval requirements.

The four contenders are the Barracuda from France, the S-80-Plus from Spain, DSME-3000 from South Korea and Amur design from Russia. Germany had also been a contender but recently said that they dropped out.

All of the contenders have their merits and it is likely to be a tough choice for the Indian Navy. Below we outline the different designs.

The Indian Navy's detailed requirements have not been shared. Based on reports and analysis of their current capabilities, investments and threat focuses, two things seem sure. The first is that P75I will have AIP (air independent power). The second is that they would prefer a VLS to launch Brahmos anti-ship missiles. Taken together, the P75I will have to be much larger than previous Indian navy conventional submarines.

Both the AIP and VLS will present challenges and difficult decisions. Like all major submarine projects, trade-offs will have to get made. India has developed its own fuel cell AIP which it is planning to fit to the current French-designed Kalvari Class (Scorpene type). This is a logical choice for the P75I also, particularly from the perspective of indigenous industry. However the Indian Navy is likely to be very interested in the AIP already available with the designs. Incorporating the local AIP would increase development risks, and close off opportunities to access better AIP systems.

The VLS will be a challenge because all the contenders are relatively small boats. It is unclear how dependent the contract will be on a VLS, or whether alternative missile options will be considered.

1. Barracuda Class Submarine
France's Naval Group is believed to be offering a diesel-electric version of their Barracuda nuclear submarine. The nuclear version is already in service with the French Navy (Marine Nationale) as the Suffren Class. Being from the same lineage as the Kalvari Class currently being built in India, it can be seen as a strong contender.

The diesel-electric version could have some design features from the SMX-3.0 design. This was exhibited at DEFEXPO in India in 2020. This may include the sail-mounted hydroplanes (as opposed to hull mounted on Suffren) and AIP. The French AIP system uses fuel-cells with a diesel reformer to eliminate the need for onboard hydrogen storage. It has been shore tested for years.

Perhaps the largest design advantage of the Barracuda is simply its size. The hull diameter of around 8.5 meters is the largest of the competitors. This should make it comparatively less challenging to fit a VLS, even with the massive Brahmos missile. The related SMX Ocean concept already has a VLS, and the baseline Barracuda class can anyway launch MdCN land-attack cruise missiles.

Other noteworthy features of the French design are likely to include X-form rudders and a pump-jet. This latter feature may also be of interest in India's nuclear submarine projects.

We can speculate that French nuclear submarine technologies and/or access to extra-large uncrewed underwater vehicle (XLUUV) technologies, may also be a factor. Naval Group recently revealed that they have had an XLUUV demonstrator in the water since last year.

2. DSME-3000, South Korea's Missile Submarine
South Korea has recently spread its wings and entered the submarine export game, selling boats to Indonesia. They are understood to be proposing an export version of their home-grown KSS-III design. This is a relatively large non-nuclear boat, likely second only to the Barracuda.

The type comes with German based fuel-cell AIP. The layout, with a hull section essentially dedicated to AIP, suggests that it would not be too challenging to swap it for the Indian alternative.

And South Korea is ahead of most countries in the race to fit lithium-base battery technology to submarines. This promises to extend the endurance of submarines when running on batterie. Naturally this may be attractive to the Indian Navy, even potentially diminishing the importance of AIP.

Its differentiating feature is that it already comes with a six or ten round VLS. In South Korean service this is expected to carry the Hyunmoo 4-4 missile, which is roughly equivalent to India's K-15 Sagarika but without a nuclear option. While exact dimensions and weights are not available, this at least implies that it could accommodate the similarly sized Brahmos.

Carrying a VLS in such a small submarine likely needs some trade-offs, like fewer weapons slots in the regular torpedo room. But overall the South Korean design seems balanced and highly capable.

3. Spain's New Entrant: S-80 Plus
Another new country to submarine exports, Spain's Navantia is offering a variant of their latest S-80 plus design. This is a larger boat than the Scorpene design (per India's Kalvari Class), but smaller than the South Korean or French options.

The AIP is a fuel-cell system with bio-ethanol reformer. So like the French system there is no need for hydrogen storage. Currently Spain's S-80 Plus boats are not running with AIP, but the system is being tested and should go to sea in the next few years.

It is unclear whether Navantia is proposing a VLS. The design was always intended to be compatible with land-attack cruise missiles shot from the torpedo tubes.

4. The Russian Option: Amur
Essentially the export versions of the Lada Class, the Amur family of submarines has been offered for several years. Russia already has strong ties with the Indian Navy and some related Kilo Class submarines are still in their service. The Amur shares some lineage to the Kilo but features a single-hull configuration.

Despite having the smallest hull diameter of the contenders (1.5 meters less than the Barracuda), design models have frequently shown a VLS. This seems to have been for smaller Kalibr sized weapons rather than the Brahmos however.

Another challenge for the Amur designs could be AIP. Russia has yet to develop an AIP system for its Lada Class. Possibly the Indian AIP system is key to the proposal.

Like France, Russia may be seen as having a 'home advantage' because of the strong historic relationship. There have been reports that Russia views this as an opportunity to joint-develop the next generation of non-nuclear submarine. How this sits with other reports of the same thing with China remains unclear.

Bron: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/10/the-4-submarines-competing-for-the-indian-navys-p-75i-program/

Harald

Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 19/10/2021 | 08:03 uur
New European Attack Submarine Programs Pushing Limits of Diesel Technology

https://shar.es/aWjXf5

Wel een vrij éénzijdig artikel om alleen de afgeleiden van de Duitse 212 te nemen. Niets over de andere Europese diesel boten van bijvoorbeeld  Spanje, Frankrijk en/of Zweden.
Ruikt een beetje naar een gesponseerd artikel.   :hrmph: