German Navy to receive five additional K130 corvettes

Gestart door Zeewier, 20/12/2016 | 12:18 uur

Lynxian

Kan iemand mij vertellen hoe het eigenlijk komt dat de Duitsers zo belabberd zijn in het bouwen van marineschepen? Voor een volk dat bekend staat om haar punctualiteit, kwaliteit en precisie, laten ze met hun marinebouw bijna alle tegenovergestelde eigenschappen zien.

Harald

New RAM Launchers for the German Navy
(Source: Diehl Defence; issued June 21, 2018)

MUNICH --- This June RAM-System GmbH (RAMSYS) was awarded for the delivery of ten Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) launching systems for the German Navy. These weapon systems will be installed and integrated on the second batch of already procured K130 class corvettes.

The RAM weapon system is the backbone of the German and US Navy's ship self-defense capability against ASMs, air targets and fast surface targets in the close range and is one of the key systems for their combat readiness.

The launching system is able to fire all deployed RAM Block 0, 1A and 2 missiles, as well as next generation missiles Block 2A and B.

Apart from the transatlantic cooperation partners, the navies of Eqypt, Greece, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, United Arab Emirates and since 2017 Mexico and Qatar rely on the outstanding capabilities of RAM ship self-defense weapon system.

Prime contractor RAMSYS, together with its shareholders Diehl Defence and MBDA Germany and the US-Partner Raytheon Missile Systems, are responsible for the development and production of the RAM weapon system within this US-German RAM cooperation.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/194199/german-navy-orders-ram-launchers-for-new-k130-corvettes.html

Harald

Atlas Elektronik & Thales Deutschland to Deliver CMS of K130 Corvettes

ATLAS ELEKTRONIK and Thales Deutschland have jointly been commissioned to deliver the combat system of the German Class K130 Corvette. The order comprises 5 corvettes as well as the Test and Training Centre (EZ/BUZ) in Wilhelmshaven.

With completion scheduled for 2025, the "FüWES K130" consortium formed by the two companies and led by ATLAS ELEKTRONIK will deliver the combat system hardware and also adapt and update the existing Combat Management System software of the K130, first batch (ship 1-5).

The contracted solution for Ship 6-10 is identical to the original contract (2003) for the K130, first batch. In line with the re-build requirement, changes in the solution are only related to obsolescence and compliancy with German regulations. Regulations regarding Safety and IT Security are significantly aggravated since commissioning the first batch of corvettes.

Although the industrial situation has changed over the past years, the existing K130 combat system knowledge is preserved within the companies concerned. For this reason, ATLAS ELEKTRONIK will remain responsible for the operational software and Thales will remain responsible for an IT secure combat system infrastructure.

Commander Dietrich Esfeld (German Navy), Head of Project K130 at the Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support (BAAINBw), stated: "The corvettes of the Class K130 have already demonstrated their value in shallow water operations in the Baltic Sea as well as expeditionary operations in the Mediterranean for the German Navy." Michael Ozegowski, CEO of ATLAS ELEKTRONIK, and Dr. Christoph Hoppe, CEO of Thales Deutschland, emphasized: "This contract is a prolongation of the long standing and successful cooperation between our companies on the German market. We are proud of this expression of trust: in close cooperation with the ARGE K130 and the German Navy, ATLAS ELEKTRONIK and Thales Deutschland – as two internationally leading system suppliers – are to prepare these ships for the challenges of the years to come."

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2018/june-2018-navy-naval-defense-news/6293-atlas-elektronik-thales-deutschland-to-deliver-cms-of-k130-corvettes.html

Parera

Ik dacht dat German Naval Yards samen was met BAE Systems. De grote grap hier is natuurlijk dat Alion ook contact heeft met Damen over de Canadese fregatten waar ze een aangepaste versie van de LCF aanbieden. Verder hebben ze enkel ervaring met grote Amerikaanse schepen naar mijn weten. o.a. de DDG-51 en die past niet in Duitse plaatje als je het mij vraagt.

Harald

Four Shipyards Agree to Build New German Corvettes

To keep as many of its naval shipyards as possible afloat, the German defense ministry will divide the construction of the new batch of K130-class corvettes among four shipyards belonging to three separate companies.



The five additional K130 corvettes for the German Navy will be built at four shipyards in Northern Germany, and specifically in Hamburg, Bremen, Kiel and Wolgast, the K130 Working Group, which includes naval shipbuilding groups Lürssen, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems and German Naval Yards, announced on April 6. The contract, which was approved last year, is worth around two billion euros, German newspaper Die Welt reported Friday night.

The five corvettes are identical to those of the first batch, that ThyssenKrupp and Lürssen built for the German Navy in the past decade. The two companies were initially awarded the contract for the second batch without a public tender, which German Naval Yards successfully challenged, Die Welt said.

Lürssen will now build the forward sections of two ships in Bremen, while the other three will be built at Kiel-Gaarden by German Naval Yards. The Peene shipyard in Wolgast, which also belongs to Lürssen, will build the rear sections of all five ships. All five corvettes will be assembled, equipped and launched at Blohm + Voss, Hamburg's last major shipyard and also a subsidiary of Lürssen.

"Our goal, together with our partners in the consortium and the numerous on-site suppliers, is to successively hand over all five boats to the German Navy from 2022," Tim Wagner, Managing Director of the Defense division of Lürssen Werft, told Die Welt.

Tender for multipurpose combat ship is underway

Orders from the German Navy are now scarce and highly sought after by the specialized shipyards. A consortium of Lürssen and ThyssenKrupp is still building the four new frigates of the F125 type at Blohm + Voss in Hamburg until the beginning of 2020.

Currently, the bidding process for the next generation of frigates, the multi-purpose combat ship MKS180, is underway. Blohm + Voss is bidding for this order, which is expected to cost around 3.5 billion euros, together with Damen Shipyards from the Netherlands. Competitor German Naval Yards has formed a consortium with US defense contractor Alion.

However, Lürssen and ThyssenKrupp were excluded from the frigate competition by the BAAINBw, the German defense ministry's procurement arm. While no official reason was provided, German officials have made no secret that the build quality of the F125-class frigates delivered by the two companies was unacceptably bad, and in fact led the German navy to refuse delivery of the Type 125 frigate "Baden-Wurttenberg." The ship, according to German media reports, suffers from major hardware and software defects, is overweight and suffers a persistent list to starboard.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/192245/four-shipyards-agree-to-build-new-german-corvettes.html

Parera

Citaat van: walter leever op 08/10/2017 | 18:13 uur
Misschien een ideetje voor de Duitsers om in te stappen in het mijnenjager vervangingstrajekt. Ze willen er 11.  ;D



According to Flotilla Admiral Reineke, in charge of Navy Planning:

  -"amphibious capability" to be built up jointly with Netherlands by the end of the 2020s
        "in his opinion" possibly with two "big decks" each operated by either country by then
  -  intermediate expanded joint use of Dutch units
  - replacement for mine countermeasures capability with 11 new units by 2026
  - auxiliary replacement projects in planning phase
  - replacement for A704 fleet oilers "underway" (... like it has been for a decade)
  - replacement for A404 tenders for support and supply primarily of corvettes and mine warfare units, possibly also for supporting submarines of other nations
    Sea Lynx replacement from 2025
  - upgrade of F124 as BMD pickets by 2024


Also, one of the two remaining Class 520 LSM - currently mostly used for logistics - was taken out of service and immediately scrapped this month due to extremely bad state of repair (discovered in a shipyard where she was for regular maintenance). Only two of these - originally 22 - boats built in 1964-66 remain afloat, one in active service and one owned by a naval veteran association.

Ik zie wel meer mogelijkheden om (in de toekomst) op samen mee te werken ;)
- de amfibische capaciteit (zeker omdat de Duitsers al jaren ''flat decks'' willen zie hun oude LHD project)
- Uitbreiding van het Kmarns naar een 3e Marine Combat Group met Duitse troepen geintegreerd
- Mijnenjagers (al heeft BE hier de leiding in en zal Duitsland een grote hap uit de taart willen qua ontwerp, industrie e.d.) zouden er gezamenlijk toch 23 zijn een mooie grote order
- vervanging van de Type 704's
- En Natuurlijk de BMD

walter leever

#33
Misschien een ideetje voor de Duitsers om in te stappen in het mijnenjager vervangingstrajekt. Ze willen er 11.  ;D



According to Flotilla Admiral Reineke, in charge of Navy Planning:

  -"amphibious capability" to be built up jointly with Netherlands by the end of the 2020s
        "in his opinion" possibly with two "big decks" each operated by either country by then
  -  intermediate expanded joint use of Dutch units
  - replacement for mine countermeasures capability with 11 new units by 2026
  - auxiliary replacement projects in planning phase
  - replacement for A704 fleet oilers "underway" (... like it has been for a decade)
  - replacement for A404 tenders for support and supply primarily of corvettes and mine warfare units, possibly also for supporting submarines of other nations
    Sea Lynx replacement from 2025
  - upgrade of F124 as BMD pickets by 2024


Also, one of the two remaining Class 520 LSM - currently mostly used for logistics - was taken out of service and immediately scrapped this month due to extremely bad state of repair (discovered in a shipyard where she was for regular maintenance). Only two of these - originally 22 - boats built in 1964-66 remain afloat, one in active service and one owned by a naval veteran association.

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

#32
Citaat van: Parera op 14/09/2017 | 20:09 uur
Tsja en dan hopen ze in Den Haag / Brussel op 500 miljoen voor een goed ASW fregat :silent:

Helaas. we moeten nog even wachten. Vooralsnog ga ik uit van een efficiënt Nederlands ontwerp tegen een goede prijs, immers we konden ook 4 LCF's bouwen voor 2.1 mjd euro, waarbij ik me realiseer dat vMFF een kwart eeuw later het levenslicht ziet en dat we helaas een deel van de militaire bouwstandaard hebben los gelaten, iets wat tijdens een oorlogssituatie best wel eens uitermate vervelend zou kunnen worden.

Blijft het feit dat een  korvet van 400 mjn euro, ruim 76% van de aanschafprijs van destijds een LCF, stevig aan de prijs is.

Parera

Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 14/09/2017 | 19:52 uur
Als je bedenkt dat een MKS-180 (voorlopig) €1.125 miljard per exemplaar gaat kosten.....

Tsja en dan hopen ze in Den Haag / Brussel op 500 miljoen voor een goed ASW fregat :silent:
Wat ik begreep uit de Duitse media is dat de upgrades voornamelijk zitten in vernieuwen van de verouderde systemen, veiligheids upgrade (SOLAS) en de 2e serie krijgt een hangaar voor UAV's.

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Thomasen op 14/09/2017 | 19:48 uur
Nog weinig vertrouwen in dat dit oplevert wat ze m.i. nodig hebben.

Zeer twijfelachtig...

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Parera op 14/09/2017 | 19:46 uur
Het is rond 5 korvetten tussen 2022 - 2025 a 400 miljoen euro per stuk. Wat een belachelijke prijs voor die schepen zeg, de originele 5 stuks kosten ''maar'' 240 miljoen euro per stuk. Laten we hopen voor de Duitsers dat de 2e serie minder problemen heeft als de eerste serie.

Als je bedenkt dat een MKS-180 (voorlopig) €1.125 miljard per exemplaar gaat kosten.....

Parera

Het is rond 5 korvetten tussen 2022 - 2025 a 400 miljoen euro per stuk. Wat een belachelijke prijs voor die schepen zeg, de originele 5 stuks kosten ''maar'' 240 miljoen euro per stuk. Laten we hopen voor de Duitsers dat de 2e serie minder problemen heeft als de eerste serie.
Citaat
German Navy orders second batch of five corvettes

The German Navy is now set to receive a second batch of Braunschweig-class corvettes, also commonly referred to as the K130 class, from 2022. The German defence procurement agency BAAINBw announced on 12 September 2017 that it had awarded a contract worth EUR2 billion (USD2.4 billion) to a consortium led by Lürssen shipyard and also comprising ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems and German Naval Yards Kiel. The new corvettes will be based on the proven design, but will feature updated technology, the BAAINBw release noted. This includes addressing emerging obsolescence issues and meeting standards and regulations that have moved on. Specific examples are noted to include new rescue and evacuation equipment to meet evolving Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) rules, and enhanced network infrastructure on board.

[Source: Janes.com ]


Harald

Difficult Maneuvering Around Warship Deal

Shipyard manager Friedrich Lürssen is a man with striking determination. Together with his cousin, he turned Bremen-based Lürssen Werft into Germany's leading shipbuilder, primarily by acquisitions. If a takeover target was unwilling and resisted, like Hamburg-based Blohm + Voss, he waited patiently and then achieved his goal after all.

And he can use this perseverance right now. The German Ministry of Defense wants to order five new K130 corvettes. They are supposed to be built by a consortium composed of Lürssen and Thyssen-Krupp Marine Systems (TKMS), the shipyard subsidiary of Thyssen-Krupp. Since these firms had already delivered five K130 in recent years, they were given the contract without a call for bids.

However, competitor German Naval Yards lodged a complaint with the federal cartel office and was able to chalk up a win. Last week, the authorities in Bonn didn't go along with the defense ministry's argument, according to which the deal was urgent and only the old consortium would be able to build the ships. Now the deal with a volume of around €2 billion ($2.25 billion) is on ice.

But the ministry has until the middle of next week to appeal the decision of the antitrust authority. "We are thoroughly reviewing the decisions of the federal public procurement chamber and will then make a decision on what action to take," a ministry spokesperson said.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/184021/german-cartel-office-blocks-corvette-deal-but-mod-persists.html

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/difficult-maneuvering-around-warship-deal-769963

Harald

(wel in het Duits, maar toch ... ) (... het is ook noodzaak dat Duitsland extra K130's wil aanschaffen ivm aantallen schepen en inzetbaarheid )

Ergänzungsbeschaffung K130

Verfügbarkeit erhöhen – Fähigkeiten verbessern

http://marineforum.info/Aktuelles_Heft/K130/k130.html

ARM-WAP

Citaat van: Ace1 op 25/04/2017 | 22:47 uur
De Duitsers snappen het in ieder geval beter als de Nederland door de Schnellboten te vervangen door Meko Korvetten zorg je ervoor dat je extra export orders creeërt  voor de toekomst omdat je dan kan laten zien dat je iets van de plank kunt leveren.  Niet voor niets had Damen voor de KM ook liever  Sigma Korvetten gebouwd dan OPV's. En de K130 Korvetten zijn al een stap vooruit voor de Duitse marine als je dat vergelijkt met de e Gepard-class Schnellboten.
Toch nog even dit:
- Voor FAC (fast attack craft) zoals de Gepard zal er altijd een markt blijven bestaan. Ze zijn klein, zeer snel en toch - in verhouding -  zwaar bewapend en hebben een kleine bemanning.
- Kan best geloven dat Damen liever Sigma's gebouwd had voor de KM, maar dat dit niet gebeurd is heeft wel degelijk redenen en die werden elders op het Forum al aangehaald.
Maar ondertussen is Damen erin geslaagd al andere ontwerpen voor verschillende landen te bouwen. Me dunkt dat Damen haar focus voor de KM ondertussen op iets anders geplaatst heeft.
- De K130's zijn m.i. niet te vergelijken met de Gepard. Ze zijn modern, veel beter voor hun bemanning maar het ontbreekt ze, vooral, aan snelheid. En ik denk dat ze ook veel makkelijker te detecteren zijn. Maar wat RCS-informatie aangaat zullen we in het donker tasten...