Duitsland zoekt CH-53 Stallion vervanging

Gestart door Sparkplug, 03/12/2015 | 09:07 uur

Harald

German Aerospace Companies Visit Sikorsky's West Palm Beach Facility

Sikorsky hosted leading German aerospace companies with engineering, manufacturing and maintenance, repair, overhaul expertise attended the two-day event to discuss the new Marine CH-53K King Stallion helicopter and the German Air Force "Schwerer Transporthubschrauber" (STH) Program. The event took place at Sikorsky's West Palm Beach, Florida facility.

"It is Sikorsky's intent to be heavily involved as the original equipment manufacturer, but to have German suppliers accomplish the majority of the work when it comes to platform sustainment," said Nathalie Previte, vice president of Sikorsky's strategy and business development. "We have several suppliers with whom we are finalizing exclusive relationships and who will form the foundation for the Sikorsky STH team in Germany."

The participants were briefed on the CH-53K aircraft, the program and met the Sikorsky leadership team. The agenda included a program overview, an update on the STH program, the industrialization opportunities on the CH-53K and a tour of the factory and the helicopter.

The CH-53K King Stallion advances Sikorsky's 50 years of manufacturing and operational success with its CH-53A, CH-53D/G, and CH-53E predecessors. Built to thrive on the modern battlefield, including shipboard operations, the CH-53K aircraft is designed to be intelligent, reliable, low maintenance and survivable in the most austere and remote forward operating bases.

With the legacy fleet of the CH-53G we have a long lasting strong relationship with the Bundeswehr, which we plan to strengthen with the CH-53K. The CH-53K will enable the German Armed Forces to conduct real heavy lift operations. Intelligent, reliable, low maintenance and survivable, the CH-53K is the future of German Heavy Lift.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/185100/sikorsky-courts-german-firms-for-ch_53k-support.html

Harald

Airbus Seeks Stake in Future German Heavy Helicopter Program

Airbus On Back Foot Over Helicopter Deal for German Military

Airbus has urged the German government to ensure domestic firms get a big share of a near €4 billion (Dh16.65bn) contract earmarked for the country's next generation of heavy-lift military helicopters.

German defence officials have said they want a low-risk heavy-lift helicopter that already exists, which means the likely supplier will be one of the two biggest US weapons makers - Lockheed Martin or Boeing.

Airbus officials say they do not have a helicopter large enough for Germany's probable military's needs, but want to take a close look at the requirements when they are released by the defence ministry, a move that could occur next year.

Europe's biggest aerospace company and seven German firms including engine maker MTU Aero Engines said on Wednesday they had teamed up to push for a management and maintenance role in the project.

"This is about the future of the German helicopter industry," said Wolfgang Schoder, the chief executive of Airbus Helicopters Deutschland.

The defence ministry has proposed spending €3.84bn for the project through to 2029, although the programme must still be approved by parliament.

The German firms want the ministry to split the procurement of the helicopters from the work of certifying, managing and maintaining the new aircraft that will go on for decades.

This programme is "too big for Germany industry not to be involved", Airbus' Stefan Woelfle told military officials and industry executives.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/185110/airbus-seeks-stake-in-future-german-heavy-helicopter-program.html

Ronald Elzenga

Luftwaffe chief expresses preference for Chinook over King Stallion

Sebastian Schulte, Berlin - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
12 May 2017
   
The German Air Force (Luftwaffe) would prefer the Boeing CH-47F Extended Range (ER) Chinook to fulfil its Schweren Transporthubschrauber (STH) requirement over the Sikorsky's CH-53K King Stallion, the service's chief disclosed on 11 May.

Speaking at European Air Chiefs Conference (EURAC) in Germany, Lieutenant General Karl Müllner said that he preferred the Chinook over the King Stallion as a future replacement platform for the Luftwaffe's current VFW-Fokker/Sikorsky CH-53G/GS/GA Stallion helicopters.

"The question is, do we want an existing and proven helicopter available quickly or a more modern, but not as of yet fully established helicopter [that will be] perhaps delayed?

http://www.janes.com/article/70351/luftwaffe-chief-expresses-preference-for-chinook-over-king-stallion

Sparkplug

A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

Sparkplug

A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

Harald

Citaat van: Sparkplug op 27/02/2017 | 15:50 uur
Het betreft 26 stuks van de oorspronkelijke CH-53G uitvoering. Hiernaast zijn er al 40 stuks van de gemoderniseerde CH-53GA uitvoering.

http://airheadsfly.com/2017/02/27/airbus-retrofits-26-german-ch-53s/

ok, ik wist van de upgrade naar GA uitvoering, en dacht dat er van die 40 nu maar 26 door Airbus onder handen genomen gingen worden.
Maar .... het is dus anders ; er zijn 40 stuks in GA uitvoering en van de "overgebleven" oorspronkelijke aangekocht versie worden er nu 26 gerefit.
Dus 40 + 26

Sparkplug

Citaat van: Harald op 27/02/2017 | 15:28 uur
Airbus Awarded Contract to Retrofit 26 Bundeswehr CH-53 Helicopters   ( ... maar eerste nog een retrofit ..  :hrmph:  maar 26 heli's ? )

DONAUWÖRTH, Germany --- Airbus Helicopters has received an order from the Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support (BAAINBw) to retrofit 26 CH-53 heavy transport helicopters.

.../...

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/181475/airbus-to-extend-service-life-of-26-german-ch_53g-helicopters.html

Het betreft 26 stuks van de oorspronkelijke CH-53G uitvoering. Hiernaast zijn er al 40 stuks van de gemoderniseerde CH-53GA uitvoering.

http://airheadsfly.com/2017/02/27/airbus-retrofits-26-german-ch-53s/
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

Harald

Airbus Awarded Contract to Retrofit 26 Bundeswehr CH-53 Helicopters   ( ... maar eerste nog een retrofit ..  :hrmph:  maar 26 heli's ? )

DONAUWÖRTH, Germany --- Airbus Helicopters has received an order from the Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support (BAAINBw) to retrofit 26 CH-53 heavy transport helicopters.

This contract will cover obsolescence management for components that are no longer available on the market and will begin by replacing them with up-to-date parts.

This retrofit will guarantee the helicopters' operation until at least 2030. The process will start in 2017 and should be completed by 2022. Work will be carried out in Donauworth at Airbus Helicopters' Military Support Center Germany.

"This order enables both the German Armed Forces (Bundeswehr) and also our Donauwörth plant to plan ahead with certainty," said Wolfgang Schoder, CEO of Airbus Helicopters Deutschland. "Airbus Helicopters has been the German specialist for maintaining, repairing and modernising heavy transport helicopters for decades. We have the necessary infrastructure, highly trained professionals and can guarantee supply for all Bundeswehr models."

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/181475/airbus-to-extend-service-life-of-26-german-ch_53g-helicopters.html

Harald

Bell eyes German heavylift requirement for V-22



Bell Helicopter is touting its co-developed V-22 tiltrotor for the German air force's heavylift rotorcraft requirement, despite the programme having largely focused on only two other options to date.

While a request for proposals from Berlin is still pending, it has been widely considered that the two main contenders for the Sikorsky CH-53G replacement need are the new CH-53K and the Boeing CH-47F Chinook.

However, Richard Harris, vice-president of international military sales for Bell, told FlightGlobal at the Royal International Air Tattoo that the company is considering offering the V-22 for the requirement, and believes it has key attributes that would appeal to Germany.

One example would be the V-22 Aerial Refuelling System (VARS) that is currently under development, which Harris says could lend itself to the air force's requirements.

While the Osprey does not have the same lift capacity as the CH-53K or Chinook, a mixed fleet of V-22s and one of these options could be considered, Harris suggests.

"We think it is [suitable]," Harris says, adding that even if the request for proposals did not exactly match the V-22's characteristics, Bell Boeing "would still respond to it".

Harris says the UK Royal Navy also remains interested in the type, and that this could increase when the service introduces its Queen Elizabeth-class carriers.

"I think that is going to generate a requirement," he says. "Unfortunately the SDSR [Strategic Defence and Security Review] did not describe a particular requirement...[but] we're trying to keep the Royal Navy informed."

The US Navy's purchase of the type to carry out the carrier on-board delivery role will help keep the production line going, Harris says, and a similar role could be provided for the RN.

The UK is acquiring the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, and the V-22 has proven its ability to carry the type's Pratt & Whitney F135 powerplant, would could also appeal to the RN.

The Airbus Defence & Space A400M that the Royal Air Force operates has had problems finding a way to refuel rotorcraft, so Harris also thinks that the V-22 with the VARS capabilty could fill this gap.

"We have had the conversation with the RN," he adds.

There is also traction elsewhere in Europe for the tiltrotor, both at the individual nation and NATO levels.

Countries are eyeing the Osprey for special operations, naval resupply and maritime mission support roles, but Harris acknowledges that there is a change of mindset needed to introduce the type.

"The problem we have with the V-22 is that it brings a mission that has been done by something else for some time," he says.

Pooling the capability could be an option – just as some European nations have done with the Boeing C-17 transport – and Harris envisages five nations collectively doing this.

"A pooled training and sustainment operation would reduce the cost," he adds. This is just at a discussion level, Harris notes, "but I know it's supported at NATO HQ".

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/bell-eyes-german-heavylift-requirement-for-v-22-427141/

Huzaar1

Citaat van: Sparkplug op 14/06/2016 | 22:04 uur
Tja. Waarom koos West-Duitsland in de jaren 70 voor de CH-53G en niet voor de CH-47C? Wie weet welke eisen de Duitsers stellen. Sikorsky verwacht ook bij andere CH-53 gebruikers zoals Israël met de CH-53K een kans te maken.

Subsidie subsidie en nog eens subsidie.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion" US secmindef - Jed Babbin"

dudge

Citaat van: Sparkplug op 14/06/2016 | 22:04 uur
Tja. Waarom koos West-Duitsland in de jaren 70 voor de CH-53G en niet voor de CH-47C? Wie weet welke eisen de Duitsers stellen. Sikorsky verwacht ook bij andere CH-53 gebruikers zoals Israël met de CH-53K een kans te maken.

Natuurlijk maken ze wel export kansen. Als is het maar door wat je in de politieke theory 'path dependency' noemt (ook relevant in het F35 topic).
Maar wel een interessante vraag.

Sparkplug

Tja. Waarom koos West-Duitsland in de jaren 70 voor de CH-53G en niet voor de CH-47C? Wie weet welke eisen de Duitsers stellen. Sikorsky verwacht ook bij andere CH-53 gebruikers zoals Israël met de CH-53K een kans te maken.
A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

dudge

Citaat van: Huzaar1 op 14/06/2016 | 20:57 uur
Wat moet eronder hangen dat wat de Chinook niet kan dragen dan?

Geen idee, een Fennek?
Een CH47 lijkt voor army toepassingen de betere kaarten te hebben, en vandaar ook een serieuze kans te maken in Duitsland.

Huzaar1

Citaat van: Thomasen op 14/06/2016 | 20:20 uur
Hij doet het goed boven water, en eet Chinooks als ontbijt, dwz, neemt iets van 2x zoveel mee.

Wat moet eronder hangen dat wat de Chinook niet kan dragen dan?
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion" US secmindef - Jed Babbin"

Elzenga

#55
Citaat van: Huzaar1 op 14/06/2016 | 19:28 uur
Zitten er uberhaupt voordelen aan die Sikorsky?
Deze link en afbeeldingen..chinook versus stallion.. zijn in deze wel interessant....

http://livefist.blogspot.nl/2009/01/boeing-presentation-to-iaf-comparing.html