Internationale fighter ontwikkelingen

Gestart door Lex, 19/12/2015 | 16:32 uur

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Ronald Elzenga op 07/06/2017 | 13:40 uur
Nou Nederland, België en Duitsland mee in de F-35 A/B mix samen met Spanje en we komen ergens.

Polen volgt vanaf/rond 2025

Ronald Elzenga

Nou Nederland, België en Duitsland mee in de F-35 A/B mix samen met Spanje en we komen ergens.

ARM-WAP

Eigenlijk niet verbazingwekkend, deze Spaanse intentie.
Indien ze hun  VTOLs eens willen vervangen is er slechts een optie: de F-35B.
Van daar naar de F-35A is blijkbaar slechts een kleine stap.
LM blij en gelukkig... weer een klant erbij... In Europa en bij Boeing mogen ze met lede ogen toekijken.
Wat deze beslissing voor de Spaanse aerospace industrie zal meebrengen laat ook niet naar zich raden: werkverlies.
De vette kluiven en zelfs de kruimels zijn al verdeeld onder de partners die wel betaalden voor deelname in dit geldverslindende project.

Ronald Elzenga

Lijkt me geen verkeerde keuze. Interessant om te lezen waarom Spanje niet eerder meedeed aan het JSF programma.

Harald

Spain's Air Force and Navy have sights set on new American fighter aircraft  (zowel A als B, totaal ca. 60 stuks )

Despite its price tag, officials prefer the F-35 Lightning II to the alternative of more Eurofighters

After investing €10.6 billion on the European fighter plane, it turns out that Spain's future military aircraft will in all likelihood be American-made. The Spanish Air Force and Navy have their sights set on the F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter, made by Lockheed Martin, to replace the F-18s and vertical take-off Harriers that will be decommissioned halfway through the next decade.

An estimated 45 to 50 aircraft will be required for the Spanish Air Force and another 12 to 15 for the Navy. The program could represent spending of over €6 billion, and more than double that considering the logistical support required to keep the aircraft operational.

There is no alternative for the Navy, if it wants to maintain its naval aviation capacity – the ability to launch air power from a ship. The Navy will have to gradually decommission its remaining AV-8B Harrier II Plus aircraft, and the only planes available on the market capable of Vertical/Short Take Off and Landing (V/STOL) are the F-35s. Without them, the Navy's flagship Juan Carlos I would be reduced to the category of helicopter carrier.

Navy officials are aware that the F-35 is too expensive (between €90 and €130 million a unit, not counting the engine) and that their order of 12 to 15 planes would be too small for any meaningful negotiating margin. But things would be different if the Air Force decided to order the same model, said high-ranking Navy officials.

The future fighter aircraft is one of the priorities of the new Armed Forces Capacity Objective slated for approval before the end of this year, said General Fernando Alejandre, the new chief of the defense staff. The goal is to replace the F-18 fighters, which, together with the Eurofighter and the EF2000, are at the forefront of the Spanish Air Force's aircraft program.

The F-18 allowed the Air Force to make a quantum leap forward in the 1980s in terms of technological capacity, but the fleet is now 30 years old and most aircraft have more than 5,000 hours of flying under their wings, with the limit set at around 7,000. Of the 86 aircraft currently in service, the ones in the Canary Islands are in most urgent need of replacement, as they have around three years of service left. All the F-18's will need to be phased out starting in 2025.

Although that may sound like a long time, military sources said that the process to acquire a new fighter plane is very long, meaning that a decision should be reached by 2018 at the latest. "The more we wait, the worse negotiating conditions we will have," said a source.

Air Force sources said that, even with improvements, the Eurofighter cannot compare with the F-35, a fifth-generation fighter that has integrated sensors on the pilot's helmet, granting 360-degree vision. They also allege that relying on a single model could make the Air Force vulnerable in the event of a structural problem with the Eurofighters.

The EF2000 is a European program that Spain participates in with a 14% stake, and which creates around 3,000 direct jobs in the country. The F-35 is an American aircraft in whose production process Spain would play an insignificant role. The country was asked to join the F-35 consortium back in the day (along with Britain, The Netherlands, Italy, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Norway and Turkey) but the Defense Ministry declined the invitation.

"The financial contribution was very high, and the industrial return small," said a source who held a position of responsibility over the matter at the time. "We could not afford to pay for the EF2000 and the F-35 at the same time."

Given its political, industrial and military implications, the purchase of the armed forces' future aircraft is one of the most important decisions that Defense Minister María Dolores de Cospedal will have to make. That is, of course, as long as the defense budget increases and there is enough money to pay for it.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2017/06/05/inenglish/1496652196_078384.html?id_externo_rsoc=TW_CC

Sparkplug

A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

Sparkplug

A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

Harald

Zwitserland  Recommendations on the Acquisition of A New Combat Aircraft  (het wordt optie 3 )

The expert panel's recommendations are:
-- Option 1: Replacement of present fighter inventory by 55 (possibly up to 70) new combat aircraft, replacement of current air-defense network with new system offering improved performance.
Estimated cost: 15 to 18 billion Swiss francs.
-- Option 2: Acquisition of 40 new combat aircraft and procurement of a new air-defense network.
Estimated cost: 9 billion Swiss francs.
-- Option 3: Acquisition of about 30 new fighters and service life extension of F-18 Hornet fighters until 2030, and significant improvement of the performance of the air-defense network.
Estimated cost: 8 to 8.5 billion Swiss francs.
-- Option 4: Acquisition of only 20 new fighters, service life extension of the F-18s and renewal of the current air-defense network.
Estimated cost: 5 billion Swiss francs.
The majority of the Expert Panel members (6) voted in favor of Option 3. Options 1 and 2 won two votes each, while as single panel member voted for Option 4.
The members of the Support Panel representing the main political parties voted for Option 3 (3 votes) with a single vote for Option 1.)


Switzerland needs surveillance, protection and defense of its airspace, new combat aircraft and a new ground-to-air defense system: This is the conclusion reached by the two groups tasked by the DDPS chief to examine and evaluate the acquisition of new combat aircraft.

The report of the expert group, which provides a general overview of the issue of airspace protection, stresses the need for interaction between surface-to-air defense and combat aircraft in order to accomplish this mission. The support group, for its part, formulated a total of sixteen recommendations for the head of the DDPS.

In the 2020s, the air defense capabilities of the Swiss armed forces (fighter aircraft, ground-based air defense) will reach the end of their useful life. In the spring of 2016, the head of the DDPS commissioned a group of experts within the DDPS to elaborate the necessary foundations for their replacement by adopting a global vision. These are now summarized in a report that considers all aspects, and reflects the opinions of these experts. The leader of the DDPS will be able to refer to the department's position on the issue. It should be noted, however, that the conclusions of the expert report cannot be regarded as the official position of the DDPS regarding the acquisition of combat aircraft.

The first part of the report consists of an analysis of current trends in the conduct of air warfare and the evolution of modern air defenses. The second part details and explains the tasks of the Swiss Air Force: the need to have air defense capabilities (combat aircraft and surface-to-air defense) to ensure a comprehensive protection of airspace in times of tension. The need to provide effective end-effects from the start of hostilities in the event of armed conflict is highlighted.

Starting from the level of benefits targeted by the Air Force as early as 2025, and in accordance with the Federal Council's long-term airspace concept (report in response to the Galladé 12.4130 postulate) of 27 August 2014, the expert panel's report sets out in detail four options, each based on a varying degree of development of airspace protection systems, and outlines its advantages and disadvantages.

The report presents options for the acquisition of 30 or 40 aircraft or even 55 aircraft and even more, as well as an option that would consider, in addition to acquiring 20 new combat aircraft, provisional maintenance of the F / A fleet (30 aircraft) until its replacement in the 2030s.

The group of experts concluded that the process of modernization of existing air defense assets must begin urgently. To this end, the evaluation of a new combat aircraft should begin shortly, with the objective of being able to choose the type of aircraft in 2020 and request the granting of the acquisition funds as part of the Army 2022 budget. The valuation procedure is described in detail in the report, as well as the possible industry participation during the acquisition and, subsequently, the operation phases.

The report sheds light on the issue of airspace protection mission and also shows the role of the interaction between surface-to-air defense and combat aircraft to carry out this mission.

The four options presented provide for a long-range ground-to-air defense system that can cover an area either the size of the Swiss Plateau or of the entire national territory, depending on the number of aircraft acquired.

After the suspension of the DSA 2020 project in March 2016, it is a matter of restarting the evaluation by modifying its concept and resuming work as quickly as possible, based on the reference values described in the report. The objective is to be able to offer the necessary credit for the acquisition at the latest in a defense budget during the early 2020s.

External Support Group: Statement of Sixteen Recommendations

The group of internal experts was accompanied by a group outside the department, consisting of one representative from each of the four government parties, as well as representatives from the DDPS, other departments, industry and the Swiss Officers' Society.

This group's mission was to evaluate and acquire a new combat aircraft at an early stage of the project, taking into account all aspects, including possible interactions with surface-to-air defense, to discuss and to contribute to the comprehensive and transparent preparation of such a procurement project.

The support group made sixteen recommendations to the DDPS leader, and will serve as a basis for decision-making. Some deal with the following issues: the need for new combat aircraft, the capabilities they should possess, the financing of such an acquisition, the organization of a popular vote, and whether or not to take into account Russian or Chinese combat aircraft. The support group also spoke about the variants presented in the panel's report, the number of aircraft that should be purchased, and the planned interactions with ground-to-air defense.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/184084/swiss-panels-call-for-30-new-fighters%2C-modern-sam-network.html

Nikehercules

Overduidelijk propaganda, dat zie je al aan de titel. Natuurlijk verdient het project niet de schoonheidsprijs maar dit filmpje is veel te eenzijdig. De F-35 zal verworden tot een platform wat zijn gelijke niet kent. Ik begrijp sommige argumenten om voor bijv de Gripen te kiezen maar heb niet de illusie dat deze operationeel ook maar in de buurt komt van de F-35.

Ace1


Harald

Swiss MoD Looks to Revive Fighter Deal

Expert Group to Report on Future Air Defense Options


The Swiss Ministry of Defense will this week take another step towards the replacement of its fighter aircraft fleet, which was suspended since 2014, when the Swiss people voted against buying 22 Saab JAS-39 Gripen fighters for the partial replacement of Northrop F-5Es in 2014.

The current Minister of Defense, Guy Parmelin, set up an expert group in February 2016 to study how Switzerland will ensure the defense of its airspace in future years. In parallel, the UDC party in the canton of Vaud set up a support group two months later which included representatives of industry, the military and the foreign ministry as well as a representative of each major political party.

These two groups – expert and support – will announce the results of their endeavors tomorrow in Bern, the Lausanne daily Le Temps reported May 26. Their brief was to study all possible future threats to Swiss airspace, and how to protect it, so it is expected that their reports will cover the modernization of air defenses as well as the fighter replacement.

Four scenarios, four price tags 

The daily La Liberté reported May 26 that the expert group has identified four scenarios for the future fighter procurement. The goal is to replace the entire fleet of 54 F-5E Tigers as well as the 30 Boeing F/A-18 Hornets, the mainstay of Swiss air defense, whose service life is being extended until 2030 at a cost of 450 million Swiss francs.

1) The most ambitious option calls for the procurement of 55 to 70 modern fighters and of an integrated air-defense system covering all of Swiss territory (45,000 sq km), whose cost is estimated at 15 billion to 18 billion Swiss francs. This however seems very insufficient, given the cost of current combat aircraft, and a more likely cost would be the same figures, but in euros.

The two middle scenarios call for :
2) procurement of 30 fighters and of a complete air-defense system, or

3) of 40 fighters and an air-defense system covering only one-third of national territory. Both are costed at 8-9 billion francs.

4) Finally, the low-cost scenario calls for buying just 20 fighters and an air-defense system also covering one-third of the country, at an estimated cost of 5 billion francs.

These figures should be compared to the defense budget, which averages 5 billion francs annually, of which 1 to 2 billion francs is earmarked for procurement.

Funding remains a major question mark

Given these costs, and the fact that in 2014 Swiss voters refused to approve spending 3.1 billion francs to buy 22 new fighters, politicians are understandably reticent to the idea of asking them to now approve a bill of 8 to 9 billion francs.

The reports submitted tomorrow will be passed on to the Federal Council, Switzerland's government cabinet, which will choose one of the options – or none.

It will also decide how to finance the new acquisitions, an issue that was widely debated during the Gripen negotiations. One option is to pay for them in annual instalments out of the defense budget, which will in this case have to be substantially increased. This option offers the advantage of not requiring a referendum.

A second option is to set up a special fund, as was the case for the Gripen project, but this would require a referendum, which could take place in 2019 but which the government might be unwilling to risk a second time.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/184024/swiss-mod-looks-to-revive-fighter-deal.html

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society/press-review_stories-making-the-swiss-sunday-papers/43214910#.WSr7pFVqgAM.twitter

Poleme

Citaat van: Sparkplug op 27/05/2017 | 11:16 uur
Super Hornets see boost in new US budget request
FlightGlobal
En dan te bedenken dat 20 jaar geleden de F-18E/F Super Hornet werd gezien als een interim / "bridge to the future" oplossing tot 2025

Terug naar 2015:
For years, the Pentagon was inflexible when talking about the number of F-35s it wants to buy — 2,443 — pushing back against any suggestions that it should trim that shopping list. But no more.
The high price tag of the F-35, a Lockheed Martin aircraft whose engine is made by Pratt & Whitney, has made some Pentagon officials consider whether the Defense Department can afford as many of the Joint Strike Fighters as they had once planned.
Gen. Joseph Dunford, now the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, wrote in testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee this summer that the Pentagon is "presently taking the newest strategic foundation and analyzing whether 2,443 aircraft is the correct number."
When asked by the same committee: "Do you believe the Navy can afford and needs to procure 310 more F-35Cs with a procurement cost of over $42 billion (USD 135,48 million per plane) ?"  Chief Naval Officer Adm. John Richardson said he would work to "re-validate the appropriate number of aircraft the Navy requires."

Plans right now are for the Navy to purchase 340 F-35Cs, the version of the plane designed to operate from aircraft carriers. The Marines and Air Force would receive different versions of the fighter plane. Other versions of the Joint Strike Fighter are being sold to U.S. allies.
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the head of Senate Armed Services Committee and a frequent critic of the F-35 program, said the numbers the Pentagon has been quoting are inflated.
"There's just not going to be that many," McCain said.
In an interview, McCain said the Pentagon has to look "realistically" at how many weapons systems it can afford.
"The question is, at the present cost, can we afford as many F-35s?" he asked.
McCain said he will press the Pentagon to determine how many planes the services need.
Nulla tenaci invia est via - Voor de doorzetter is geen weg onbegaanbaar.

Sparkplug

A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

Sparkplug

A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

-- Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF.

Ronald Elzenga

Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 21/05/2017 | 13:38 uur
Indo-Russian project to develop aircraft hits roadblock over price, technology

http://defenceupdate.in/indo-russian-project-develop-aircraft-hits-roadblock-price-technology/
Laat ook mooi zien dat het nog wel meevalt met die "5e generatie" dreiging vanuit Rusland en China. Lopen toch ook tegen financiële en technische problemen op die blijkbaar samengaat met deze technologische ontwikkelingen.