Birma gaat Spitfires opgraven

Gestart door andré herc, 14/04/2012 | 14:18 uur

Ace1

Burma Spitfires – the dig is back on!!



We have been following the story of the Burma Spitfires since 2012. Some great highs and lows along the way. We all get excited by any news regarding the warbirds. It's a real Indiana Jones film – but this is real. David Cundall is making it real and is taking us all along the journey with him. It's like watching a world cup final.

As we know, new funding has been made available. David 'electronically' pops into our office quite often and it is great to hear that he is now ready to dig once again. Cundall goes onto say:

"For the last 17 years I have been trying recover the lost Spitfires. And in that time My group have received information to prove these lost Spitfires have been buried for political reasons . Many people at the time of burial heard rumours that they were buried for payment to the Karen's for their effort in supporting the British in ww2 and in support of the Karen uprising which happened in 1948. This uprising was to gain independence from Burma. At the moment other groups are trying to get a contract and have received all my data that I have collected over the years. If you can help me in my quest please do so"



The dig is just about to start and we will bring you further updates as soon as David can send them to us at War History Online.

David Cundall's life ambition was a determination to uncover the mystery of the lost Burma Spitfires. His firm belief that the spitfires existed stemmed from rumours and indirect documentary evidence. In 1996 he was told that the rare Mark XIV Spitfires had been declared surplus to requirements at the end of the war and buried in crates rather than being shipped home. Evidence from the UK National Archives and other sources had supported the claim that surplus equipment was, on occasion, buried rather than repatriated. Mr Cundall subsequently gathered eyewitness testimony from eight surviving servicemen who claimed they saw the burial. Three separate sites were excavated by the aviation enthusiasts and archaeologists but nothing was found. As many as 36 planes were believed to have been buried at the airport, which was under British occupation during World War Two and called RAF Mingaladon. The team left the UK with 17 years of research and a firm belief that as many as 140 of the planes were buried in near pristine condition at various sites by American military engineers at the end of the war.

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/burma-spitfires-dig-back.htm

Ace1

New image holds key in hunt for Spitfires in Burma



The Birmingham Mail reports:

Spitfire hunter David Cundall has unveiled evidence he claims shows the exact location where iconic Birmingham-made fighters are buried in Burma.

The 63-year-old farmer released new images of what he says are man made objects buried at Mingaladon Airport in Yangon up to 11 metres deep, in the wake of new surveys being carried out on his behalf in Burma.

The aircraft enthusiast has exclusively given the Birmingham Mail copies of the new 2D and 3D images, seen here, which are believed to show where the Spitfires have been buried in their steel reinforced wooden crates since the end of World War II.

The latest surveys were carried out earlier this summer by Mr Cundall's Burmese partners Htoo Htoo who have identified objects at seven and 11 metres deep around 30 metres away from the international airport's main runway.

In a report to Mr Cundall, the team's consultant geophysicist Professor U Tin Htut states: "The feature looks like a man-made structure."

And after comparing the latest tomography results to electromagnetic data taken during Mr Cundall's last visit to Burma in January where a dig for the lost squadron of aircraft was halted, Prof Htut added that: "The two anomalies on the tomography data coincide with the two anomalies found in the January 2013 electromagnetic data.

"The two anomalies are parallel trending.

"These two parallel anomalies, or low resistivity bodies, may be the place where the Spitfires were buried at the end of World War II.



"Test pitting or drilling should be done before more expensive ways of drilling."

In an exclusive interview with the Mail, a confident Mr Cundall said: "For the last seven months I have been fighting experts that have never done this before.

"They don't know the full facts because I am unable to supply them the full story.

"I have six other groups all claiming that they know the location of the Spitfires."

The latest images are an exciting development in Mr Cundall's 17 year quest.

Despite claims to the contrary , he still strongly believes the Spitfires were buriedshortly after being delivered to Burma after being deemed surplus to requirements.

Last month aviation archaeologist Andy Brockman, who was one of the experts called in to assist on the failed dig in January as part of a now ended partnership with online games company Wargaming, said the farmer was chasing a rainbow. He said the only documentary evidence he found was RAF logbooks that revealed over 100 planes were broken up in Burma in 1945 alone and given to locals for scrap.

It's eyewitness information that has led Mr Cundall to the current location the latest evidence of buried objects has been unearthed. Mr Htut explained why the search for the buried aircraft had been so difficult to date. He said: "The Spitfire aircraft was made largely of aluminium with steel fittings in its engine and cannons.

"When packed for shipping it was packed in a wooden (pine usually) container, which was steel reinforced.

"The size of the geophysical target is well known – a Spitfire in its shipping case had dimensions 28 x 8 x 12 feet.

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/image-holds-key-hunt-spitfires-burma.html

Ace1

Search for 'buried Spitfires' in Burma called off




Archaeologists have called off a hunt for World War II Spitfires in Burma.

Originally it was thought as many as 124 Spitfires were buried by the RAF at the end of the war but they have now concluded it was a myth.

A dig at the international airport near the city of Rangoon, which used to be RAF Mingaladon, has drawn a blank.

The project was financed by Wargaming Ltd, who have said they believe the story about Spitfires being delivered in crates and then buried was not true.

Tracy Spaight, Wargaming's director of special projects, said: "No-one would have been more delighted than our team had we found Spitfires.

"We knew the risks going in, as our team had spent many weeks in the archives and had not found any evidence to support the claim of buried Spitfires."

Apology

Wargaming Ltd said they now believe no Spitfires were delivered in crates and buried at RAF Mingaladon during 1945 and 1946.

The company said that archival records showed that the RAF unit that handled shipments through Rangoon docks only received 37 aircraft in total from three transport ships between 1945 and 1946.

Most of the Spitfires that were in Burma at the time appear to have been re-exported in the autumn of 1946, they said.

Last month project leader David Cundall said he believed they would find the Spitfires but were just digging in the wrong place and said he would apologise if he was proved wrong.

Mr Cundall has spent the last 17 years trying to discover the truth of claims that unused, unassembled Spitfires were packed into crates and buried by the RAF at sites in Burma on the orders of Lord Mountbatten at the end of the war in 1945.

He collected eyewitness accounts from American and British service personnel as well as local people.

One of them, British veteran Stanley Coombe, travelled to Burma to witness the excavation.

The dig got the go ahead after it secured funding from Belarussian video games firm Wargaming.net, and received permission from Burmese President Thein Sein during a meeting with British Prime Minister David Cameron last year.

Before the dig, scientists had discovered large concentrations of metal under the ground around Rangoon's airport, lending support to the theory that up to 36 planes were buried there.

Last month a crate was discovered in the Kachin state capital Myitkyina, but muddy water stopped an immediate identification of its contents.

The central city of Meiktila was another site identified as a possible location for the buried Spitfires.

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/search-for-buried-spitfires-in-burma-called-off.html

Ace1

Archaeologists believe no Spitfires buried in Burma


The site at Rangoon airport is one of three that David Cundall (left) believes holds buried Spitfire planes

Archaeologists hunting for World War II Spitfires in Burma believe there are no planes buried at the sites where they have been digging, the BBC understands.

The archaeologists have concluded that evidence does not support the original claim that as many as 124 Spitfires were buried at the end of the war, the BBC's Fergal Keane reports.

Wargaming.net, the firm financing the dig, has also said there are no planes.

But project leader David Cundall says they are looking in the wrong place.

He told the BBC that he feels very frustrated but is determined to keep up his campaign, and remains convinced Spitfires are buried in Burma.

Asked if he would apologise if he was proved wrong, he replied: "Of course I will. But I've tried and I believe it's better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all."

An initial survey of the site began in early January, with excavations due to begin after that.

A scheduled press conference was cancelled on Friday morning by Wargaming Ltd, with a spokesman saying he hoped to give more details later.

When pressed, the spokesman said there are no Spitfires, our correspondent says.

Muddy waters
British campaigner David Cundall has spent the last 17 years trying to discover the truth of claims that unused, unassembled Spitfires were packed into crates and buried by the RAF at sites in Burma on the orders of Lord Mountbatten at the end of the war in 1945.

He has collected eyewitness accounts from American and British service personnel as well as local people.

One of them, British veteran Stanley Coombe, had travelled to Burma to witness the excavation.

The dig got the go ahead after it secured funding from Belarusian video games firm Wargaming.net, and received permission from Burmese President Thein Sein during a meeting with British Prime Minister David Cameron last year.


Mr Cundall maintains that as many as 124 Spitfires are buried in sites around Burma.

Before the dig, scientists had discovered large concentrations of metal under the ground around Rangoon's airport, lending support to the theory that up to 36 planes are buried there.

Earlier this month, a crate was discovered in the Kachin state capital Myitkyina, but muddy water stopped an immediate identification of its contents.

The central city of Meiktila was another site identified as a possible burial ground for the Spitfires.

Analysis

Fergal Keane
BBC News

The team of archaeologists working on the dig are specialists in the field of war excavations.

They have been digging at the site over the last week.

They have also examined the file of evidence supplied by David Cundall which includes eyewitness testimony from eight individuals.

However they believe that none of the testimony proves that Spitfires were buried at the airport or any of the other sites in Burma.

The team has also examined the existing war archives as well as photographs and drawings by official war artists from the period.

I understand they believe traces of metal alloy found in the ground could come from other sources. During the dig they uncovered pieces of the old metal runway.

One possibility they have studied is that witnesses may have seen crates of other aircraft - used for observation work - being shipped through the airport during the period.

However, Mr Cundall insists that his eyewitness testimony is correct. He says the archaeologists have dug in the wrong place.

The dig was delayed on Thursday by official concerns that work could interfere with electric cables and water pipes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21074699

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Marc66 op 15/04/2012 | 00:05 uur
Gaat Birma die dan ook opgraven?  ;)

Maar een spitfire heeft reeds een bewapening en die roeibooit vast niet  ;)

Kwestie van een grote roeiboot en een punt 50.

Marc66

Gaat Birma die dan ook opgraven?  ;)

Maar een spitfire heeft reeds een bewapening en die roeibooit vast niet  ;)

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Marc66 op 14/04/2012 | 23:48 uur
Vervanger voor de F-16 en stukken goedkoper dan de JSF  ;)

Zo kan je een LCF ook vervangen door een roeiboot.

Marc66

Vervanger voor de F-16 en stukken goedkoper dan de JSF  ;)

Ace1

Spitfires Buried In Burma During WWII Could Return To The Skies As David Cameron And Thein Sein Mend Relations



Twenty "lost" Spitfires that were buried in Burma during the Second World War could return to the skies, it has been revealed.

David Cameron and Burmese president Thein Sein have agreed to work together to find and restore the historic aircraft as part of a thaw in relations.

Amateur aviation enthusiasts uncovered evidence of the Spitfires' existence years ago, but have been unable to gain access to their potential locations.

British statesman Earl Mountbatten ordered the RAF to bury them in the summer of 1945 amid fears that they could be either used or destroyed by Japanese forces.

Burma's Aung San Suu Kyi Welcomes David Cameron's Call For Suspension Of Sanctions

Within weeks, the atom bomb was dropped to end the conflict, and the brand new planes - which were in crates and yet to be assembled - were seemingly forgotten.

Experts from Leeds University have linked up with an academic based in Rangoon and believe they have identified the sites where the craft are concealed using sophisticated radar techniques.

Although around 21,000 Spitfires were built during the war effort, only 35 are believed to be in flying condition today.

Mr Cameron raised the fascinating find when he met Mr Sein for talks yesterday. Officials said the president was "very enthusiatic", and if the planes can be salvaged, some could potentially go on display in Burma.

A Downing Street source said: "The Spitfire is arguably the most important plane in the history of aviation, playing a crucial role in the Second World War.

"It is hoped this will be an opportunity to work with the reforming Burmese government, uncover, restore and display these fighter planes and get them gracing the skies of Britain once again."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/04/14/spitfires-buried-in-burma-during-wwii-could-return-to-the-skies-as-david-cameron-and-thein-sein-mend-relations_n_1425395.html

Ace1

Citaat van: Poleme op 14/04/2012 | 21:08 uur
Mwah, begin dan maar met de bouw van nieuwe Hurricanes.  Deze kist is veel minder gevoelig voor vuur vanaf de grond dan de Spitfire.
En, ook geschikt voor expeditionair optreden, dat is de Spitfire dus niet, want veel te onderhoudsgevoelig.

Wow, een nieuwe Hurricane met turbo-prop motor en 2x 40mm kanons boven Ariana.  Ohh Yeahh.

Dit bedoeld Poleme met de Hurricane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hurricane

dudge

Het zijn echt tijdcapsules, wel gaaf als ze inderdaad in goede conditie zouden zijn. Met die opmerking, 'goed' is een waardeoordeel en relatief. Maar zou tof zijn als het  in echt goede staat is. Trouwens, 21.000 toestellen, das wel wat anders dan de productie run van 400 toestellen tegenwoordig.

Poleme

Mwah, begin dan maar met de bouw van nieuwe Hurricanes.  Deze kist is veel minder gevoelig voor vuur vanaf de grond dan de Spitfire.
En, ook geschikt voor expeditionair optreden, dat is de Spitfire dus niet, want veel te onderhoudsgevoelig.

Wow, een nieuwe Hurricane met turbo-prop motor en 2x 40mm kanons boven Ariana.  Ohh Yeahh.
Nulla tenaci invia est via - Voor de doorzetter is geen weg onbegaanbaar.

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Ace1 op 14/04/2012 | 20:36 uur
Wilt de Britse premier David Cameron  misschien de 20 Spitfires gebruiken om zo de problemen bij de RAF op te lossen? :devil:

Laten we dan maar oppassen dat het geen trend wordt, voordat je het weet worden de bouwtekeningen van de G1 weer van stal gehaald...

Ace1

Wilt de Britse premier David Cameron  misschien de 20 Spitfires gebruiken om zo de problemen bij de RAF op te lossen? :devil:


andré herc

Birma gaat Spitfires opgraven


Spitfire van de Britse Luchtmacht

Toegevoegd: zaterdag 14 apr 2012, 13:39


Twintig Spitfires die onder de grond liggen in Birma worden misschien opgegraven en in oude staat hersteld. De Britse premier David Cameron en de president van Birma, Thein Sein, zijn overeengekomen dat de Britse jachtvliegtuigen worden opgespoord.

De Spitfires werden in de zomer van 1945 door de Britse luchtmacht begraven, omdat gevreesd werd dat de oprukkende Japanners er mee aan de haal zouden gaan of ze zouden vernietigen. De toestellen waren nog niet in elkaar gezet. De onderdelen zaten in kratten en waren makkelijk onder de grond te verstoppen.

Atoombommen

Een paar weken daarna werden de atoombommen op Nagasaki en Hiroshima gegooid en was de oorlog tussen de Japanners en de geallieerden voorbij. De vliegtuigen, die op ongeveer 12 meter diepte liggen, werden vervolgens vergeten, totdat luchtvaartliefhebbers enkele jaren geleden bewijs vonden van de toestellen.

Waar de Spitfire-delen precies begraven liggen, was lange tijd onduidelijk, maar onderzoekers van de universiteit van Leeds denken nu dat ze plek hebben gevonden. Vanwege het politieke klimaat en de slechte verhoudingen tussen Birma en Groot-Brittanië was het eerder onmogelijk om aan opgravingen te beginnen.

Uitstekende staat

Cameron, die op bezoek is in Birma, zou het onderwerp persoonlijk in een gesprek met de Birmese president hebben aangesneden. Thein zou "heel enthousiast" hebben gereageerd. Als de vliegtuigen worden opgegraven, worden er waarschijnlijk ook een paar in Birma tentoongesteld. De rest gaat terug naar Groot-Brittanië. De verwachting is dat de vliegtuigonderdelen nog in uitstekende staat zijn.

Naar schatting zijn er tijdens de Tweede Wereldoorlog 21.000 Spitfires gebouwd. Daarvan zijn er nog 35 in staat om te vliegen.

nos.nl
Den Haag stop met afbreken van NL Defensie, en investeer in een eigen C-17.