Internationale fighter ontwikkelingen

[Micheltje]

En wat heeft die te maken met de strekking van dit topic?

Wel dan kan men verder gaan kijken qua ontwikkeling/aanschaffing meer toestellen of een andere type

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Als de Belgen voor de Gripen een tender voor 30-36 toestellen verwachten zal dat voor de Rafale ook om 30-36 toestellen gaan...

Dat denk ik ook, iets wat zal gelden voor alle types in de competitie.

[ARM-WAP]

En dan te bedenken dat Noorwegen voor 52 x F-35A gaat.

Afwachten wat de Rafale kwantiteit voor de Belgische tender zal worden.

Als de Belgen voor de Gripen een tender voor 30-36 toestellen verwachten zal dat voor de Rafale ook om 30-36 toestellen gaan...

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

En dan te bedenken dat Noorwegen voor 52 x F-35A gaat.

Afwachten wat de Rafale kwantiteit voor de Belgische tender zal worden.

Als ik zie wat de huidige export klanten betalen.... dan kan je het zelf uittekenen.

[Lex]

Eerst maar eens de 2 mljd uitspraak afwachten

En wat heeft die te maken met de strekking van dit topic?

[Micheltje]

Daar heeft niemand mij tot nu toe van kunnen overtuigen.

Al zou een 2e batch in de jaren twintig natuurlijk tot de mogelijkheden kunnen behoren (iets wat ook geldt voor de F35A)

Eerst maar eens de 2 mljd uitspraak afwachten

[Sparkplug]

Zo komt mijn voorspellen van 20-24 F35A voor BE toch wel angstvallig in de richting.

En dan te bedenken dat Noorwegen voor 52 x F-35A gaat.

Afwachten wat de Rafale kwantiteit voor de Belgische tender zal worden.

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Het zullen er dan denk ik wel veel meer zijn geworden

Daar heeft niemand mij tot nu toe van kunnen overtuigen.

Al zou een 2e batch in de jaren twintig natuurlijk tot de mogelijkheden kunnen behoren (iets wat ook geldt voor de F35A)

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

30-36 voor Belgie...
Als dat waar is moeten "we" niet eens meer kijken naar de F-35A.
Want als er slechts geld is voor zo'n beperkt aantal Gripens, dan is die LM-kist onbetaalbaar  :)

En die zou men dan nog (naar aloude verdeelsleutel) willen stationeren op twee basissen (eentje in het noorden en eentje in het zuiden van het land).

Zo komt mijn voorspellen van 20-24 F35A voor BE toch wel angstvallig in de richting.

[ARM-WAP]

30-36 voor Belgie...
Als dat waar is moeten "we" niet eens meer kijken naar de F-35A.
Want als er slechts geld is voor zo'n beperkt aantal Gripens, dan is die LM-kist onbetaalbaar  :)

En die zou men dan nog (naar aloude verdeelsleutel) willen stationeren op twee basissen (eentje in het noorden en eentje in het zuiden van het land).

[Micheltje]

Het bevestigt wederom dat W-Europa slechts wisselgeld voor haar defensie overheeft...

Had men in NL gekozen voor de Gripen E/F dan zou een Fins-Belgische aantal ook aannemelijk zijn geweest.... al zijn velen op dit forum er van overtuigd dat het er dan 85 zouden zijn geworden....

Het zullen er dan denk ik wel veel meer zijn geworden

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Het artikel vermeldt dat Saab meedoet aan de Finse tender met 40 stuks (ter vervanging van oorspronkelijk 64 F-18C/D Hornets) en meedoet aan de Belgische tender met 30-36 stuks. Dat zijn toch wel kwantiteiten waar je u tegen zegt 

Het bevestigt wederom dat W-Europa slechts wisselgeld voor haar defensie overheeft...

Had men in NL gekozen voor de Gripen E/F dan zou een Fins-Belgische aantal ook aannemelijk zijn geweest.... al zijn velen op dit forum er van overtuigd dat het er dan 85 zouden zijn geworden....

[Sparkplug]

SAAB Gripen program update

Dennis Spronk | 17 March 2016

During the annual Saab Gripen seminar, which was held on Thursday 17 March, Ulf Nilsson, head of Saab business area Aeronautics, and Richard Smith, head of Gripen marketing and sale, gave an update on the status on various developments on the Gripen.

.../...

Zie onderstaande link voor het complete artikel.
http://airheadsfly.com/2016/03/17/saab-gripen-program-update/

Het artikel vermeldt dat Saab meedoet aan de Finse tender met 40 stuks (ter vervanging van oorspronkelijk 64 F-18C/D Hornets) en meedoet aan de Belgische tender met 30-36 stuks. Dat zijn toch wel kwantiteiten waar je u tegen zegt 

[Sparkplug]

Skunk Works pushes investment in F-22 and F-35 over new aircraft

By James Drew, Washington DC | 18 March 2016

Lockheed Martin has warned against rushing into a sixth-generation fighter programme without first boosting F-35 Lightning II numbers and implementing a "robust" modernisation programme to keep fifth-generation F-22s and F-35s capable against new counter-air threats.

The Pentagon has plans to buy 2,443 F-35s, but the programme has been delayed by six years and almost doubled in cost compared to projections in 2001 because of problems during development.

However, Lockheed's Skunks Works chief says once fully fielded, the combination of F-22s and F-35s will achieve the air dominance that America desires for the next 30 to 40 years.

"The quicker we can get a force structure that's heavily populated by fifth-generation airplanes the better," says Rob Weiss, who has led Lockheed's advanced development programmes office since 2013. "We should minimise the investment in fourth-generation airplanes: nothing beyond what is needed to maintain the force structure because obviously fourth-generation airplanes aren't leaving the force structure immediately."


US Air Force

His comments, made at a Lockheed media event in Washington DC this week, come as the air force and navy conduct an analysis of their future "air dominance" needs, more specifically, something to replace the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet and perhaps F-15.

The two services are working together on common components, like propulsion systems and defensive suites, but will likely press forward with separate fighter platforms tailored to their different needs.

The air force has suggested that some companies, like Lockheed, might push block upgrades of existing aircraft as an air dominance solution instead of an entirely new aircraft, but Northrop Grumman and Boeing need some way to break back into the high-end combat jet market.

Northrop builds F-35 centre fuselages and has the B-21 strategic bomber contract, but Boeing has nothing to succeed the F/A-18 and F-15 at its military aircraft plant in St Louis, Missouri since its X-32 lost to the F-35 for the "winner-takes-all" Joint Strike Fighter contract in 2001.

Lockheed, now playing from a position of fifth-generation strength, is calling for a three-pronged approach to future fighter furnishing: procure the total number of F-35s faster, implement a more aggressive modernisation strategy for the F-22 and F-35, and spend more time maturing "revolutionary" sixth-generation capabilities before committing to a new aircraft programme.

"As we look at F-22s and F-35s, those airplanes have the capacity to maintain an advantage over the threat for the next 30, 35 to 40 years but it requires a modernisation roadmap, just like we've done with every other airplane in history, to maintain their advantage relative to the threat," says Weiss. "The pace is, in my view, too slow."


US Air Force

The long-time Lockheed aeronautics executive says the US services could also make better use of the capabilities they have through human-machine teaming and the pairing of assets through "distributed networks capable of surviving in contested environments".

This could mean capabilities like the so-called arsenal plane that would essentially be an airborne standoff weapon storehouse that would launch volleys of missiles targeted by front-line fighters with targeting pods and sensors. It could also mean cooperative unmanned teammates like the Boeing QF-16 flying alongside manned fast jets.


Unmanned QF-16 Target Drone
US Air Force/Boeing

"The way to get there is to start operating manned and unmanned systems together," he says. "That's another area of modernising what we have; not necessarily having to design a whole lot of new systems, but enhancing the capability we do have, and that includes, by the way, some artificial intelligence or machine learning, and there's some of that we're doing."

Weiss pointed to the recent victory of a Google-developed artificial intelligence algorithm over the grand master of the ancient Chinese strategy game "Go" as an example of the type of machine learning that Lockheed is pursuing. The company will demonstrate its AI capabilities "in a warfighting environment" later this year, he says.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/skunk-works-pushes-investment-in-f-22-and-f-35-over-423298/

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Paris acknowledges India may not purchase Rafale

Build F-16 in India and supply it to Pakistan, taunts a French official

Ajai Shukla  |  New Delhi 

March 19, 2016

Paris is beginning to acknowledge the possibility that India might not buy the Rafale fighter because of sharp differences over the price, and New Delhi's insistence on enforceable guarantees regarding the fighter's delivery, performance and availability.

A senior French official with a close view of the on-going negotiations between New Delhi and Paris for 36 Rafale fighters told Business Standard on condition of anonymity: "If some people in the MoD (the ministry of defence) do not want to allow the Rafale deal to go through, so be it. We are currently building it for Egypt and Qatar, and we could have another customer in Malaysia."

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Underlining the irritation at repeated US offers to set up an assembly line in India to build the American F-16 Super Viper, the French official taunted: "If you don't want the Rafale, go ahead and build the F-16 here. You can build it in India and supply it to Pakistan also."

He was referring to Washington's announcement last month of the sale to Pakistan of eight advanced Block 50/52 F-16 fighters for $699 million. Simultaneously, a senior Lockheed Martin official had publicly offered to "move our [F-16] production line from the US to India".

Reminded that France, too, was supplying submarines to both India and Pakistan (DCNS is building six Scorpene submarines with Mazagon Dock, after earlier selling Pakistan three advanced Agosta-90B submarines with air independent propulsion), he retorted, "That is different. Pakistan is getting a different submarine from what we are providing to India."

The official dismissed the notion that an Indian order was critical for Dassault to break-even in the Rafale project, in which tens of billion euros have been spent on developing the fighter and establishing a production line. The official claimed, "The Rafale project is commercially viable based on the numbers that the French military requires, even if there is not a single export order."

In fact, defence budget cuts have forced the French military to slash Rafale orders from over 300 originally planned to only 180 ordered so far. That is a small order, given that the Eurofighter Typhoon has over 700 aircraft on order; while more than 4,500 F-16s have been built over the years.

On New Delhi's demands for sovereign guarantees from the French government, or a bank guarantee from Dassault, to cover the possibility of delivery or performance shortfalls in the Rafale, the official declared the two countries would soon sign an inter-governmental agreement (IGA), which would function as a sovereign guarantee.

"The government of France is standing behind the sale. Surely, India is not asking for a bank guarantee when it has the word of the French government?" asked the official.

When it was pointed out that the IGA would only outline a supply agreement in broad terms, without detailed binding clauses and penalties, the official responded that the IGA was a strategic agreement between Paris and New Delhi, and that "a phrase here or a sentence there would make no difference."

"In 1917, when the United States abandoned its isolationism and sent a division of troops to France to fight in World War I, it was not because there was some document with a clause that required them to fight. It was because of a common strategic aim. New Delhi and Paris must have a common strategic aim on the Rafale."

French officials argue that if Dassault is required to provide a bank guarantee against possible shortfalls in delivery and performance, India should cover that cost, which is normally three-four per cent of the guarantee amount.

Meanwhile, the Cost Negotiation Committee on the Rafale has made little headway in bridging the gap between the French demand and Indian counter-offer, which are believed to be around euro 12 billion and euro 9 billion, respectively. Issues of liability are further complicating the likelihood of a deal soon.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, while visiting Paris last April, had requested for 36 Rafales, after a breakdown in negotiations for a much larger order for 126 Rafales. The Indian Air Force had chosen the Rafale on January 31, 2012, after an exhaustive evaluation of six fighter aircraft.

http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/paris-acknowledges-india-may-not-purchase-rafale-116031700447_1.html#.VuxZCdnCfsA.twitter