U(C)AV ontwikkelingen

[Ace1]

Armed drones operated from RAF base in UK, says MoD

Armed drone aircraft have been operated remotely from Britain for the first time, the Ministry of Defence has said.

It said Reaper drones had flown missions controlled from RAF Waddington, Lincolnshire, where campaign groups are holding a protest rally against the practice.

The MoD said it respected people's rights to protest peacefully.

The drones are mainly used for surveillance, but could use weapons if commanded to by their pilots in the UK.

Campaigners say the switching of control of flights to the UK marks a "critical expansion in the nation's drones programme".

They are calling on the government to abandon the use of drones, claiming they make it easier for politicians to launch military interventions, and have increased civilian casualties.

The MoD has defended their use in Afghanistan, saying it has saved the lives of countless military personnel and civilians.

The 10 Reaper aircraft are all based in Afghanistan to support UK and coalition forces and can carry 500lb bombs and Hellfire missiles for strikes on insurgents.

They are piloted remotely, but launched and landed with human help at Kandahar airbase.

BBC defence correspondent Caroline Wyatt says the "overwhelming majority" of missions the British drones are used for involve surveillance.

She says the MoD told her British drones are not being used for targeted assassinations, unlike the Predator drones used by the US in places such as Pakistan.

Estimates suggest CIA drone attacks in Pakistan killed up to 3,533 people between 2004 and 2013.

About 890 of them were civilians and the vast majority of strikes were carried out under President Barack Obama's administration, according to research by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.

Earlier this year the UN launched an inquiry into the impact on civilians of drone strikes and other targeted killings, saying a proper legal framework was required to provide accountability.

The MoD says that when weapons are used, the same rules of engagement are followed that govern the use of weapons on manned aircraft.

Previously, RAF personnel would control the drones from Creech Air Force Base, in Nevada, US.

In October last year, the RAF created 13 Squadron based at RAF Waddington south of Lincoln, where about 100 personnel include pilots, systems operators and engineers that control missions over Afghanistan.

In a statement issued on Thursday, the RAF said it had commenced supporting the International Security Assistance Force and Afghan ground troops with "armed intelligence and surveillance missions" remotely piloted from RAF Waddington.

Air Vice Marshall Sir John Walker, a former chief of defence intelligence, said "having a capability like the drones on the order of battle can only be a good thing" because they could help troops on the ground who are in trouble, if necessary.

Speaking on Radio 4's Today programme, he likened drones to Polaris submarines which, he said, provided an effective nuclear deterrent without being used.

He said terrorists in parts of Afghanistan operate in "a condition of sanctuary", prompting him to ask: "How are you going to get them without something like a drone approach?"

Meanwhile, Kat Craig, legal director of human rights charity Reprieve, said the use of drones was a blight on the communities the drones monitor.

"The nature of drones means they hover above communities 24 hours a day, seven days a week," she said.

She went on: "They present an aerial occupation, almost a form of collective punishment, that causes huge concern and distress to people living in those communities.

"In addition to the terrorising of populations that we see living under drones, there is real concern about the accuracy of the targeting."

Several anti-war groups including CND, War on Want, the Drone Campaign Network, and the Stop the War coalition are holding a march and rally outside RAF Waddington on Saturday.

About 200 people are thought to have attended the demonstration, according to BBC reporters at the scene.



Chris Nineham, vice-chairman of the Stop the War Coalition, said: "I think people feel that there is something sinister and disturbing about the idea that someone can attack a foreign country thousands of miles away with, simply, the push of a button and this technology that is being introduced is giving carte blanche to governments to fight wars behind the backs of people with no public scrutiny or accountability.

"That's the fundamental problem."

The route of the march, from South Common along the A15 to the peace camp site opposite RAF Waddington, involves road closures in phases to limit inconvenience to motorists.

An MoD spokesman said: "We fully respect people's right to protest peacefully and within the law and would do nothing to prevent members of the public exercising their right to peaceful protest.

"Nevertheless, we have a duty to protect public property, and to ensure that we meet our operational needs.

"The MoD has a duty to maintain security at all defence installations and uses all lawful means to do so, including the right to seek injunctions against any person who persists in trespassing on MoD property."

Analysis

Caroline Wyatt
Defence correspondent, BBC News

The RAF is not keen on the term "drone". It prefers the use of "Remotely Piloted Air Systems", RPAS, to make clear that these are not autonomous systems: they still need a human being to fly and command the mission - and crucially, decide whether or not to use weapons, and whether a strike can take place under the UK's rules of engagement.

But drones are playing an increasingly important role in air warfare and air support, with many saying the Joint Strike Fighter - currently being developed in the US - is likely to be the last manned fighter aircraft bought by the UK.

After that, there will be no more "magnificent men in their flying machines".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-22320275

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Shhh... It's Vewwy Secret

Posted by Bill Sweetman  on Apr 23, 2013 

How long will it take for the Pentagon to release something official on the ultra-stealthy long-range unmanned air vehicle that (according to intel, and reasonable analysis of the open-source tea-leaves) Northrop Grumman is building and preparing for flight test at Groom Lake (AW&ST December 3, 2012)?

Lt Gen Charles Davis, military deputy in the USAF acquisition office, came close to mentioning the unmentionable in a House Armed Services Committee hearing last Wednesday. Davis was responding to a question from Rep. John Garamendi – a Democrat whose district includes Beale AFB, intended home of the Global Hawk – about the direction of the USAF's intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance program and the decision to cut back on Global Hawk acquisition.

"We did not do that without carefully looking at how we cover that with the U-2 and other classified platforms," Davis said, adding that "you'd probably need to go into detail with in another forum", a form of words indicating a classified session.

In a possible indicator as to the timing of procurement of the secret UAV, Davis said that the USAF has no requirement for more Block 30 Global Hawks beyond 2014 and wants to "use that money for much higher priorities".

"We have pretty much heavily funded ISR for a very permissive environment for a couple of decades," Davis continued. "We are in the process of trying to look at all the assets, with our operational requirements and intelligence requirements, to rationalize a program that has operated almost totally uncontested and prepare it for a scenario where it is not going to have that freedom."

The classified UAV is believed to be about the size of a Global Hawk but with Northrop Grumman's trademark "cranked-kite" shape, It has been described as incorporating both a high degree of stealth and a very efficient aerodynamic design.

This was not the only hint about classified programs in the April 17 hearing. RAdm Bill Moran, director of the Navy's air warfare division, noted that as well as funding APG-78 active electronically scanned array radar retrofits to all early Block 2 Super Hornets, "there are several other programs that I'd be happy to come back and talk about in a classified setting. They are very signficant, fully funded in 2014 and will keep the Super Hornet credible through the late 2020s and early 2030s."

http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx?plckBlogId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3A04cb672c-f231-439d-812a-33d9c0ce5ea5

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

BAE's superdrone Taranis to be tested at Woomera

April 14, 2013

THE most secretive piece of airspace in Australia - the RAAF-run Woomera flight test range in South Australia - will make history later this year when the world's first unmanned supersonic stealth combat aircraft makes its maiden test flight above the desert. 

http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech/baes-superdrone-taranis-to-be-tested-at-woomera/story-fn5fsgyc-1226619892302

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Dan nog niet. Waar leg je de grens, die leg ik eerder bij 2x 500ponders en 4x hellfire o.i.d. Is iets gemaakt voor combat, aanvalsmissies, CAS of niet.

Zo'n camcopter met LMM lijkt me ideaal voor verkenningstaken etc (OPV's?), maar niet voor gevechtsmissies.

Exact, zelfs een Predator wordt nog een UAV genoemd.

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Dat zijn naar mijn mening toch echt geen ucav's Ace.

Mee eens, nogmaals de enige serieus (bekende) Europese UCAV ontwikkelingen zijn de Neuron en Taranis, de rest zijn UAV's waarbij sommigen misschien wat C mogelijkheden hebben maar daar blijft het dan ook vooralsnog bij.

[StrataNL]

zonder Thales LMM heb je gelijk maar met een Thales LMM niet

Dan nog niet. Waar leg je de grens, die leg ik eerder bij 2x 500ponders en 4x hellfire o.i.d. Is iets gemaakt voor combat, aanvalsmissies, CAS of niet.

Zo'n camcopter met LMM lijkt me ideaal voor verkenningstaken etc (OPV's?), maar niet voor gevechtsmissies.

[Ace1]

Dat zijn naar mijn mening toch echt geen ucav's Ace.

zonder Thales LMM heb je gelijk maar met een Thales LMM niet

[StrataNL]

Over Europese  UCAV´s

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/bae-systems-unveils-its-armed-uav-fury-224616/

http://www.defensereview.com/fury-and-camcopter-s-100-uasuavs-armed-with-lightweight-multirole-missile-lmm/

Dat zijn naar mijn mening toch echt geen ucav's Ace.

[Ace1]

Over Europese  UCAV´s

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/bae-systems-unveils-its-armed-uav-fury-224616/

http://www.defensereview.com/fury-and-camcopter-s-100-uasuavs-armed-with-lightweight-multirole-missile-lmm/

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

En dat zijn de vergelijkbare Amerikaanse modellen ook nog voorlopig. Al pakt men het daar voortvarend aan. Aan ene kant begrijpelijk...m.i. ook begrijpelijk dat meeste Europese landen even de kat uit de boom kijken...zo breed en nieuw en snel zijn de ontwikkelingen op dit gebied immers. En beperkt de budgetten.

Mee eens dat het modellen zijn die vergelijkbaar zijn met die van de Amerikanen, de Taranis is wat mij betreft het meest veel belovend al loopt deze achter op de Neuron.

Jammer is de beperkte financiering en de gebruikelijke Europese onenigheid (ook weer begrijpelijk want de programma's zijn belangrijk voor het voortbestaan van de Europese UCAV en fighter industrie, kortom de belangen zijn groot net als de verdeeldheid.

[Elzenga]

Een paar echte Europese UCAV demonstrators zijn onderweg, de Neuron en Taranis (best hoopgevend)

En dat zijn de vergelijkbare Amerikaanse modellen ook nog voorlopig. Al pakt men het daar voortvarend aan. Aan ene kant begrijpelijk...m.i. ook begrijpelijk dat meeste Europese landen even de kat uit de boom kijken...zo breed en nieuw en snel zijn de ontwikkelingen op dit gebied immers. En beperkt de budgetten.

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Dat zeg ik De bovenstaande links zijn surveillance UAV's, geen Combat UAV's.

Een paar echte Europese UCAV demonstrators zijn onderweg, de Neuron en Taranis (best hoopgevend)

[Ace1]

Dat zeg ik De bovenstaande links zijn surveillance UAV's, geen Combat UAV's.

En wat is dit dan?

http://www.thalesgroup.com/Countries/United_Kingdom/FIA_2012/Documents/LMM_Family/


http://www.schiebel.net/File.aspx?Id=1979&Path=~%2fDownload%2fBrochures&Name=pdfDownload

http://www.defensereview.com/fury-and-camcopter-s-100-uasuavs-armed-with-lightweight-multirole-missile-lmm/

[StrataNL]

Wie zegt dat er geen enkele operationele home-made UCAV aktief is in de EU?

http://www.schiebel.net/File.aspx?Id=1979&Path=~%2fDownload%2fBrochures&Name=pdfDownload

http://www.saabgroup.com/en/Air/Airborne-Solutions/Unmanned_Aerial_Systems/Skeldar_V-200_Civil_Security/

http://www.sagem-ds.com/IMG/pdf/D1337E-SPERWER_MKII.pdf

Dat zeg ik De bovenstaande links zijn surveillance UAV's, geen Combat UAV's.

[dudge]

Een UAV kan ik nauwelijks een UCAV noemen.

Inderdaad. Het is tijd dat we met een echte UCAV gaan komen. Daar wordt aan gewerkt.....zij het zonder Nederland