Duitsland kiest voor raketafweerschild, zullen andere landen deelnemen ?

[Harald]

New generation of ground medium-range air defence systems SAMP/T NG for the Italian Air Force 



OCCAR-EA Director Mr Joachim Sucker and eurosam Managing Director Mrs Eva Bruxmeier signed Amendment 13 of the FSAF-PAAMS Sustainment & Enhancement (S&E) contract for approximately 700 million euro for the procurement of the new generation of ground medium-range air defence systems SAMP/T NG for the Italian Air Force. This procurement adds to the SAMP/T NG production ordered in January 2023 for the Italian Army and French Air & Space Force.
OCCAR-EA has awarded this amendment of the S&E contract, by delegation of Segretariato Generale della Difesa e Direzione Nazionale degli Armamenti (SEGREDIFESA) and Direction Générale de l'Armement (DGA), to the eurosam consortium, consisting of Thales, MBDA-France and MBDA-Italy shareholders.
The contract was signed in the presence of SEGREDIFESA, DGA and Italian Air Force representatives as it sees the latter Armed Force joining the FSAF-PAAMS programme alongside the Italian Army and Navy, the French Navy and Air & Space Force, and the British Royal Navy. 
With this contract, the Italian Air Force will be equipped with SAMP/T NG ground-to-air defence capabilities. The SAMP/T NG system development, launched in 2021 in cooperation with France and Italy, is an enhancement of the SAMP/T system in service since 2010.
The system comprises multifunctional radars (GF-300 by Thales for France and Kronos GM HP by Leonardo for Italy) with increased capability of detection and tracking of modern targets, including ballistic and hypersonic threats, and a new Engagement Module, which allows for enhanced robustness against saturating threats, high velocity cruise missiles, as well as increasing defended zone against ballistic missiles. This new systems will use both ASTER 30 Block-1 and ASTER 30 Block-1 NT (New Technology) air defence missiles from MBDA.
The Italian Air Force is joining the programme at a pivotal time, as it has now reached the completion of the definition phase for the new generation of ASTER missiles and SAMP/T NG systems. Through this procurement, Nations further reaffirm their confidence in the principles of international cooperation, contributing towards the enhancement of a cohesive European defence.
Within this framework, OCCAR-EA, as a recognised European centre of excellence for the management and procurement of complex, cooperative defence equipment programmes, continues to fully support the Nations in achieving their strategic objectives.

https://www.occar.int/occar-signs-se-contract-amendment-launch-additional-sampt-ng-systems-italian-air-force

ground medium-range air defence systems SAMP/T NG
https://eurosam.com/ground-systems/
https://www.mbda-systems.com/product/aster-30-sampt/

[Harald]

Oostenrijk en Zwitserland nemen ook deel aan het Programma Sky Shield

Schweiz macht bei «Sky Shield» mit: die wichtigsten Antworten
https://www.srf.ch/news/international/Europaeische-luftverteidigung-schweiz-macht-bei-sky-shield-mit-die-wichtigsten-antworten

Österreich will europäischem Raketenabwehrsystem beitreten
https://www.kleinezeitung.at/politik/innenpolitik/6303365/Unterschrift-am-Freitag_Oesterreich-will-dem-Europaeischen

[Parera]

Misschien moet je het ook zien in de totale samenwerking, Patriot hebben we al en met de toekomstige NASAMS3 welke ook IRIS-T kan afschieten, wordt er een ge?ntegreerd NAVO/EU luchtverdedigingsnetwerk opgezet.
Duitsland koopt/krijgt dan ARROW-3 voor de zeer lange afstand.
"Vroeger" hadden we dit al eens geregeld in NAVO verband maar dat is naar mijn weten compleet verwaterd, zal zeker op papier nog bestaan. NATO?s Integrated Air Defence System (NATINADS)
   
The Importance of Integrated Air and Missile Defence Training
A Renaissance of NATO Integrated Air and Missile Defence?
https://www.japcc.org/articles/the-importance-of-integrated-air-and-missile-defence-training/

Ja het past wel in de gedachten van het delen van niche capaciteit waarbij niet iedere partner alle capaciteit nodig heeft door de samenwerking. Ik zie ook veel liever dat we dan investeren in de maritieme luchtverdediging / BMD dan die land-based versies.

[Harald]

Ik heb er op dit moment ook geen indicatie voor, maar de Isra?lische industrie heeft wel een stevige Europese lobby opgetuigd en ook in Nederland zitten ze op meerdere vlakken in het gesprek of onder contract (o.a. de PULS en bij de marine). Ik kan me zo voorstellen dat ze ook de Arrow 3 pushen op het moment dat Duitsland de keuze gemaakt heeft. Misschien kiezen we wel voor THAAD of Arrow 3 maar volgens mij is er officieel nog geen behoefte aan dit soort systemen binnen het DGLC maar wat niet is kan nog wel komen.

Misschien moet je het ook zien in de totale samenwerking, Patriot hebben we al en met de toekomstige NASAMS3 welke ook IRIS-T kan afschieten, wordt er een ge?ntegreerd NAVO/EU luchtverdedigingsnetwerk opgezet.
Duitsland koopt/krijgt dan ARROW-3 voor de zeer lange afstand.
"Vroeger" hadden we dit al eens geregeld in NAVO verband maar dat is naar mijn weten compleet verwaterd, zal zeker op papier nog bestaan. NATO?s Integrated Air Defence System (NATINADS)
   
The Importance of Integrated Air and Missile Defence Training
A Renaissance of NATO Integrated Air and Missile Defence?
https://www.japcc.org/articles/the-importance-of-integrated-air-and-missile-defence-training/

[Parera]

Arrow 3 is meer tegenhanger van THAAD.
Het kan altijd natuurlijk. Maar zie geen enkele indicatie dat we dit zouden gaan doen.

Ik heb er op dit moment ook geen indicatie voor, maar de Isra?lische industrie heeft wel een stevige Europese lobby opgetuigd en ook in Nederland zitten ze op meerdere vlakken in het gesprek of onder contract (o.a. de PULS en bij de marine). Ik kan me zo voorstellen dat ze ook de Arrow 3 pushen op het moment dat Duitsland de keuze gemaakt heeft. Misschien kiezen we wel voor THAAD of Arrow 3 maar volgens mij is er officieel nog geen behoefte aan dit soort systemen binnen het DGLC maar wat niet is kan nog wel komen.

[Harald]

Dit is puur hardop denken maar, stel dat de Duitsers Arrow 3 aankopen is er een kans dat Nederland ook aansluit bij zo een aankoop? We zitten samen met de Duitsers in 1 groep van lucht verdedigingseenheden. Groot verschil is dat de Duitsers wel wat groter zijn op dat gebied met 12 Patriot batterijen t.o.v. onze 3 a 4 batterijen.

Ik denk, dat inderdaad NL en ook meerdere landen zullen aansluiten, zeker gezien het European Sky Shield Initiative
Tot nu toe hebben diverse Europeese landen zich aangesloten.
Basis gedachte is IRIS-T, Patroit en ARROW-3




Zie ook verdere berichten in dit topic

https://www.bmvg.de/de/aktuelles/european-sky-shield-die-initiative-im-ueberblick-5511066

[Thomasen]

Dit is puur hardop denken maar, stel dat de Duitsers Arrow 3 aankopen is er een kans dat Nederland ook aansluit bij zo een aankoop? We zitten samen met de Duitsers in 1 groep van lucht verdedigingseenheden. Groot verschil is dat de Duitsers wel wat groter zijn op dat gebied met 12 Patriot batterijen t.o.v. onze 3 a 4 batterijen.

Arrow 3 is meer tegenhanger van THAAD.
Het kan altijd natuurlijk. Maar zie geen enkele indicatie dat we dit zouden gaan doen.

[Parera]

Dit is puur hardop denken maar, stel dat de Duitsers Arrow 3 aankopen is er een kans dat Nederland ook aansluit bij zo een aankoop? We zitten samen met de Duitsers in 1 groep van lucht verdedigingseenheden. Groot verschil is dat de Duitsers wel wat groter zijn op dat gebied met 12 Patriot batterijen t.o.v. onze 3 a 4 batterijen.

[Harald]

Germany boosts defense with ?4B acquisition of Israeli Arrow-3 air defense missile systems

In a recent news release on June 9, 2023, Reuters, the International Press Agency, reported that Germany has indicated its intention to purchase the Arrow-3 air defense missile system from Israel. The investment is estimated at a staggering 4 billion euros ($4.30 billion).

Previously, in March 2023, the Army Recognition's editorial team confirmed the United States' green signal for the sale of the Israeli Arrow 3 anti-ballistic air defense missile system to Germany. This move is part of Germany's strategy to enhance its air defense capabilities with an outlay of ?17 billion towards a new multi-layered anti-missile shield. This system will incorporate the German IRIS-T, Israeli Arrow 3, and American PATRIOT air defense missile systems. The German government is currently in negotiations with Diehl Defence to acquire eight IRIS-T anti-missile systems.

The German Ministry of Defense has initiated the LVS NNbS program to overcome existing capability limitations in protecting ground troops and ensuring the safety of tactical operation centers, along with other assets, from short- and very short-range aerial threats.

The German government plans to substitute the Patriot air defense system with the LVS project by 2031 for medium and long ranges and increase its capabilities. At present, the German army operates twelve ground-based Patriot air defense missile systems. Alongside this, the LVS NNbS is slated to replace and enhance the capabilities of the existing Mantis weapon system and the Ozelot light air defense system. The current German armed forces inventory comprises two Mantis systems and two Ozelot platoons.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_june_2023_global_security_army_industry/germany_boosts_defense_with_%E2%82%AC4b_acquisition_of_israeli_arrow-3_air_defense_missile_systems.html

[Harald]

Israel and Germany progress in negotiations for Arrow 3 air defense missile system sale

According to information released on the Israeli Ministry of Defense Telegram account on April 20, 2023, the Israeli Defense Minister, German Defense Ministry, and the Aerospace Industry are advancing talks and pushing forward the process of finalizing the contract for the sale of the Israeli Arrow 3 air defense missile system.

The advanced negotiations between Israel and Germany for the sale of the Israeli air defense missile system, Arrow 3, took place in Germany this week in order to finalize a detailed agreement for the export of the Israeli system in the near future. The Israeli delegation was led by the head of the Israeli Ministry of Defense, Moshe Patel, together with the Director of the Missile and Space Division of the Aerospace Industry, Guy Levy.

The Arrow 3 is one of the most advanced missile defense systems in the world, designed to intercept ballistic missiles outside the atmosphere. The system was jointly developed by the Israeli Ministry of Defense and the American Missile Defense Agency (MDA). The primary contractor for the development and production of the system is the Aerospace Industry in collaboration with security industries in Israel and the United States.

The sale is dependent on the approval of the American government, which is a partner in the development and production of the Arrow 3 air defense system.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2023_global_security_army_industry/israel_and_germany_progress_in_negotiations_for_arrow_3_air_defense_missile_system_sale.html

[Harald]

Germany may approve purchase of Israel's Arrow 3 next week ? sources

US's recent approval is necessary, but the deal was not finalized.

Germany may approve purchasing Israel?s Arrow 3 missile defense system as early as next week, the Jerusalem Post has learned.

Over the weekend, it was reported, and the Post has confirmed, that the US approved the sale, one of several preconditions for the sale to go through, but not the final step.

.../....

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-733501

[Harald]

Die European Sky Shield Initiative #ESSI w?chst um zwei neue Mitglieder auf insgesamt 17 an. Deutschland begr??t den Beitritt von #D?nemark und #Schweden zur St?rkung der gemeinsamen Luftverteidigung. Mehr Mitglieder, mehr Sicherheit, weniger Kosten! #NATO

https://twitter.com/BMVg_Bundeswehr/status/1625796128498229249/photo/1

[Harald]

Germany to invest ?17 billion to strengthen its air defense capabilities including 8 IRIS-T

Germany plans to invest ?17 billion to strengthen its air defense capabilities with a new multi-layered anti-missile shield including German IRIS-T, Israeli Arrow 3, and American PATRIOT air defense missile system. Currently, the German government negotiates with the company Diehl Defence to procure eight IRIS-T anti-missile systems.



Germany will invest to ?2-3 billion to acquire the german-made IRIS-T as well as 4? billion for the acquisition of Arrow 3 manufactured by the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), and around ?10 billion for the American Patriot air defense missile system.

German Ministry of Defense has launched the LVS NNbS program that will bridge a current capability gap when it comes to protecting ground troops during deployed operations as well as securing tactical operation centers and other assets against short- and very short-range aerial threats.

According to the German Government, the LVS project is to replace the Patriot air defense system for medium and long ranges by 2031 and expand its capabilities. Currently, the German army has twelve ground-based Patriot air defense missile systems. In addition, the LVS NNbS will also replace the Mantis weapon system and the Ozelot light air defense system and expand their capabilities. The German armed forces currently had two Mantis systems and two Ozelot platoons.

Rheinmetall Electronics of Bremen, Diehl Defence of ?berlingen and Hensoldt Sensors announced recently that they had signed a joint agreement to co-operate in a special partnership known as an ?Arbeitsgemeinschaft?, or ARGE, which will submit a tender to provide a national, low-risk air-defense solution that features proven systems and subsystems, including integration of components already in use by the German military.

Citing information from the American-based television network Bloomberg, Germany will invest to ?2-3 billion to acquire the german-made IRIS-T as well as 4? billion for the acquisition of Arrow 3 manufactured by the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), and around ?10 billion for the American Patriot air defense missile system.

The IRIS-T (Infra-Red Imaging System Tail/Thrust Vector Controlled) is a short-range air-to-air missile developed by a consortium of German, Italian, and Norwegian companies for use by the armed forces of Germany, Italy, Norway, and others. The IRIS-T is capable of engaging aerial targets at ranges of up to 75 km and at altitudes up to 24,000 m and features advanced seeker technology, thrust vector control, and a high-performance motor.


Launcher unit of German-made IRIS-T air defense missile system.

.../...

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_february_2023_global_security_army_industry/germany_to_invest_%E2%82%AC17_billion_to_strengthen_its_air_defense_capabilities_including_8_iris-t.html

[Harald]

Israel pushes US to sell Arrow-3 air defense missile system to Germany

According to information published by "The Jerusalem Post" on December 6, 2020, Israel pushes the United States to give the green light for the sale of Arrow-3 air defense missile systems to Germany.

..../.....

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_december_2022_global_security_army_industry/israel_pushes_us_to_sale_arrow-3_air_defense_missile_system_to_germany.html

[Thomasen]

De eerste optie is dus: IRIS-T SLM batterijen of (extra) Patriot batterijen aankopen.

Voor ons zou beide geen probleem zijn, want de Patriot hebben we uiteraard al volop in dienst, en de IRIS-T past in de NASAMS launchers die we al hebben.

Om iets te kunnen onderscheppen moeten we het ook kunnen zien.
Nu ligt de nadruk er niet op, maar we zullen ook eens moeten nadenken over de AEW capaciteit. En zeker hoe die zich verhoud tot systemen als een Shahed.