Russia in talks on buying French warship

Gestart door Lex, 06/08/2009 | 20:10 uur

VandeWiel

Citaat van: Elzenga op 27/08/2009 | 15:30 uur
Citaat van: VandeWiel op 27/08/2009 | 09:06 uur
Een goede strategie om snel een grote achterstand in te halen:
al werk je het probleem van een tekort aan gekwalificeerde mensen zo niet weg...dan kan een te modern schip juist een probleem worden en een te zware belasting voor een organisatie die daar nog niet klaar voor is. In dat kader hebben de Russen met hun vaak robuuste en eenvoudige wapensystemen ergens zelf de oplossing in huis. Al is de bouw van dit soort carriers vaak een complex verhaal dat men door deze aankoop zo wel enigszins kan oplossen. Ik had eigenlijk eerder verdere samenwerking tussen Rusland en China op dit vlak verwacht...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4828244.stm

Het kan ze helpen bij een inhaalslag. Als je eerst de plannen van een ander bestudeert en daar verder mee ontwikkelt. Dat is wat de Japanners jaren 60-70 zeer succesvol hebben gedaan. Eigenlijk is dit wat je bij alle grote landen in ontwikkeling ziet. Alleen doet Rusland dit al heel lang en niet altijd met even veel succes. (oa concorde ;-))

Elzenga

Citaat van: VandeWiel op 27/08/2009 | 09:06 uur
Een goede strategie om snel een grote achterstand in te halen:
al werk je het probleem van een tekort aan gekwalificeerde mensen zo niet weg...dan kan een te modern schip juist een probleem worden en een te zware belasting voor een organisatie die daar nog niet klaar voor is. In dat kader hebben de Russen met hun vaak robuuste en eenvoudige wapensystemen ergens zelf de oplossing in huis. Al is de bouw van dit soort carriers vaak een complex verhaal dat men door deze aankoop zo wel enigszins kan oplossen. Ik had eigenlijk eerder verdere samenwerking tussen Rusland en China op dit vlak verwacht...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4828244.stm

VandeWiel

Een goede strategie om snel een grote achterstand in te halen:


Medvedev : Our country is technologically very far behind


Dam tragedy shows Russia lags behind: president

By Anna Smolchenko (AFP) – 2 days ago

ULAN UDE, Russia — The tragedy at a Russian power plant shows Russia lags far behind in technology, its president said Monday, in a rare high-level acknowledgement of the country's post-Soviet weaknesses.

President Dmitry Medvedev said the deadly catastrophe last week at Russia's biggest hydroelectric power plant showed that ageing infrastructure which was once the pride of the Soviet Union was in urgent need of modernization.
"It is clear that a technological catastrophe of unprecedented scale and consequences has taken place," a stern-faced Medvedev told a meeting with officials in Ulan Ude, the capital of the Siberian region of Buryatia.
Investigators have said that a technical fault caused the August 17 flooding tragedy at the Sayano-Shushenskaya dam, which killed at least 69 people with six more still missing and presumed dead.

"The only truth here is this. Our country is technologically very far behind," said Medvedev.
"We really are very far behind and if we don't overcome this challenge then all those threats that everyone is talking about will truly become a reality."

Russia's leaders are usually at pains to trumpet the country's technological prowess and Medvedev's comments marked a rare acknowledgement of the difficulties that have followed the Soviet collapse.
Work on the dam -- an awesome monolith spanning the Yenisei River -- began in the 1960s and it had been hailed as a triumph of Soviet engineering.

But the facility has now been completely shut down since the disaster and officials have admitted it will take three years to complete repairs.

Medvedev pinpointed a lack of expertise as a major problem, after many of Russia's best minds left for the West in the latter part of the 20th century.

"The protective stock that had been created in Soviet times has been depleted. We should openly admit this. The question of qualified personnel is at the forefront."
He said Russia's infrastructure required urgent attention and in many cases "this infrastructure is inefficient and in need of immediate modernization".

Medvedev said private and state-owned enterprises had to work together and "then we'll have the result that everyone's counting on, that is, to create a modern country".
But Medvedev also adopted tough rhetoric reminiscent of his mentor Vladimir Putin as he lashed out at Russia's enemies for predicting "apocalyptic" scenarios for the country after the tragedy.

"Those who don't like Russia within its existing borders and don't like its role in the world started rubbing their hands," he said.
He said that in some quarters the disaster was being seen as the "Chernobyl of the 21st century", referring to the 1986 nuclear disaster that severely embarrassed the Soviet Union.

Despite the problems, such notions of a Russian collapse were "nonsense", Medvedev said.
On Friday a radical Islamist group, Riyadus Salikhiin, claimed that it had triggered the disaster by detonating an anti-tank grenade in the plant's turbine hall as part of a campaign of "economic war" against Russia.

But the investigative committee of Russian prosecutors on Monday said this had been refuted as a possible cause: "It has been established that the accident was of a technical nature," it said.
"The concrete causes of the accident will be determined in the course of the investigation. The investigation has fully examined the theory of a terrorist attack and refuted it."

However the authorities have still not given a conclusive explanation of what happened, saying several theories remain under consideration.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g1iEMHoFYF55olE00uf5kvq2rpow

Elzenga

Citaat van: Lex op 26/08/2009 | 23:48 uur
Natuurlijk; je bestelt er een, met de optie van een aantal te bouwen op nationale werven. Vervolgens heb je de basis voor je eigen ontwerp op eigen werven.
Meerdere Westerse en Aziatische landen waar dit ook (is) gebeurd....De Russen zouden een dief van eigen portemonnee zijn om dat ook niet te doen...En Frankrijk wil wel leveren..eindelijk weer een export-succesje in deze magere tijden en na de verloren race in Australië..

Lex

Citaat van: Elzenga op 26/08/2009 | 23:35 uur
Mooie test om eens te kijken hoe het met de Koude Oorlog sentimenten staat... Dat de Russen waarschijnlijk verder denken dan hun olie en gasvoorraden groot zijn lijkt me aannemelijk. Ook de Russen hebben belang bij open zeewegen. En enkele Mistral-klasse schepen biedt een snelle mogelijkheid om enige capaciteit te hebben daar de Russische belangen te beschermen.   
Natuurlijk; je bestelt er een, met de optie van een aantal te bouwen op nationale werven. Vervolgens heb je de basis voor je eigen ontwerp op eigen werven.

Elzenga

Mooie test om eens te kijken hoe het met de Koude Oorlog sentimenten staat... Dat de Russen waarschijnlijk verder denken dan hun olie en gasvoorraden groot zijn lijkt me aannemelijk. Ook de Russen hebben belang bij open zeewegen. En enkele Mistral-klasse schepen biedt een snelle mogelijkheid om enige capaciteit te hebben daar de Russische belangen te beschermen.   

Lex

Russia Plans To Buy French Helo-Carrying Warship

Russia wants to buy a French helicopter-carrying warship, a top general said Aug. 29. Such a purchase would deviate from the Soviet-era principle of producing every piece of military equipment - from pistol cartridges to ballistic missiles - domestically.

Col. Gen. Nikolai Makarov, the chief of the General Staff, told reporters in Ulan Bator, where he was traveling with President Dmitry Medvedev, that "not a single country can produce everything at the high-quality level."
"Anyway, we will have to buy something [abroad]," Makarov said, Interfax news agency reported.

He said that the military would negotiate with the French Defense Ministry and a French shipbuilding company he didn't name, to buy a Mistral-class helicopter carrier that could carry 16 helicopters, 40 tanks or 900 troops. Russian shipyards would then produce three or four additional carriers with France's aid, Makarov said.

"Before the year's end, we plan to obtain contract agreements with a French company allowing the construction and purchase of this ship," Makarov told reporters. "There are no ships of this class in Russia."

France's Navy has two of the 21,300-ton carriers in service, and one more is under construction at the Chantiers de Saint-Nazaire dockyards.

Speculation that the military was interested in buying the helicopter carrier, which costs about $1 billion, according to expert estimates, first surfaced in the local Vedomosti and Kommersant newspapers last month, but Russian officials denied the reports.

Several Russian defense analysts have questioned the expediency of such a costly purchase in the name of national security. Any military conflicts likely to involve Russia would be with its neighbors, like the war last August with Georgia, which would require land troops and equipment rather than a sea vessel, they say.

Manned by 160-strong crew, a Mistral carrier can also carry four assault landing boats, and is armed with two Simbad missile air defense units, two 30mm Breda-Mauser guns and four 12.7mm machine guns.

Russia has already departed recently from its policy of being over-protective of domestic arms producers by buying 12 spy drones from Israel earlier this year for $53 million.

Defense News, Published: 26 Aug 2009 16:18

Elzenga

Ik denk dat een rol speelt hoe de staat van de Russische scheepsbouw is op het moment. En mogelijk gaat het hier om een mogelijke hardware voor natura deal. Welke Rusland wel vaker heeft gesloten de afgelopen jaren. Waarbij bijvoorbeeld de Fransen een Mistral-klasse schip leveren in ruil voor de levering van een equivalent in waarde aan gas en olie. Het zou me trouwens niet verbazen als men dan daarna de "Chinese methode" toepast...men bouwt vervolgens het schip na in eigen beheer. Dat hebben de Chinezen ook gedaan met Franse wapensystemen. De Fransen verkopen vaak wel immers.

Ace1

Dacht dat russen ook al interesse hadden in een Enforcer LPD/LHD van Damen?

Of is dit een spelletje om de prijs lager te krijgen?

Lex

MOSCOW: Russia is discussing the purchase of a French Mistral-class amphibious assault ship worth between 300 and 400 million euros ($430-580 mln), a high-ranking source close to the talks said Tuesday.
"Such talks are being held at the level of experts; the Russian side is represented by the Navy, the United Shipbuilding Corporation, and plants' representatives. In September we will provide a final conclusion for the Russian Defense Ministry," the source told RIA Novosti.
Earlier a French business daily, La Tribune, said Russia is planning to purchase a Mistral class assault ship from France. The purchase, if successful, would be the first large-scale arms import deal concluded by Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Russia first expressed an interest in bilateral cooperation with France in naval equipment and technology in 2008, when Navy chief Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky visited the Euronaval 2008 arms show in France.
The admiral said at the time that the Russian Navy was interested in "joint research and also direct purchases of French naval equipment."
According to military sources, the possibility of buying a Mistral class amphibious assault ship was discussed at the naval show in St. Petersburg in June this year.
A Mistral class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 vehicles including 13 main battle tanks, and 450 soldiers. The ship is equipped with a 69-bed hospital.
The Russian Kommersant business daily confirmed on Tuesday the possibility of the deal, but said Russian military experts were skeptical about it.
"The Russian Navy lacks the means to finance even the production of corvettes and missile boats, let alone the purchase of large combat ships," the paper quoted Mikhail Barabanov, science editor of the Eksport Vooruzheny (Arms Export) journal, as saying.
Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, said "although the practice of arms imports will become more common in Russia in the future, the Mistral deal is rather questionable from a military standpoint, as well as Russia's hopes for the transfer of advanced technologies from France."
Russia's current weapons procurement program through 2015 does not envision construction or purchases of large combat ships, so the possible acquisition of a French Mistral class ship is most likely to happen under the new program for the years up to 2020, which is still in the development.

RIA Novosti on August 5, 2009 at 6:46 am