Opvolger Walrusklasse

[Huzaar1]

Mooie sigaar

[Harald]

Saab – Damen Offering C718 Submarine To The Netherlands

Sweden's Saab Kockums business and its Dutch partner Damen first announced their partnership to pursue the Walrus class replacement programme back in January 2015.


Saab and Damen were showcasing for the first time a scale model of the new C71 design during NEDS 2023.
 
Almost nine years on, the two companies are claiming that their joint bid will deliver a submarine fully optimised to the Royal Netherlands Navy (RNLN) requirements, and at the same time maximise the participation of Dutch industry over the long term.

The C718 design being proposed for the RNLN is a variant of the new C71 design family which itself is an enlarged 'expeditionary' derivative of the new-generation A26 Blekinge class submarine being built for the Royal Swedish Navy (RSwN). Compared to its Swedish progenitor, the C718 features a larger hull diameter, increased length, and a displacement of over 3,000 tonnes.

"What we are offering is a modular design based on the latest A26 class.
It is somewhat larger, but we have pulled through a lot of systems and technologies from the parent programme."

Fredrik Gustafson, vice-president/head of marketing and sales for Saab's business area Kockums

He continued: "We think it best meets the needs of the [RNLN] but at the same time offers the potential for the maximum involvement of Dutch shipbuilding and supply chains. Our plan, with Damen, is that pressure hull sections would be built in our Karlskrona yard, but that the majority of work on build, assembly, outfitting and setting-to-work will be performed in the Netherlands."

Sweden's A26 programme has seen Saab commit significant investment to modernise the production facilities at its Karlskrona shipyard. Furthermore, the company has continued to mature its modular design and build philosophy, claiming that this approach simplifies build, outfit and integration, and reduces risk and cost when adapting the design to meet different requirements (for example, longer range, extended endurance, a larger crew, and/or additional payloads). It is also seen to help 'futureproof' the design.

"We want to safeguard and sustain core skills and competencies here in the Netherlands," said Gustafson. "We are looking to build on Saab's existing model of export delivery, with Gripen in Brazil and the development of Saab Australia serving as examples. There are a lot of Dutch suppliers who can add value to the overall [submarine] enterprise."

Saab/Damen have made no official comment on their preferred combat system supplier, other than to say it is a "proven [system] relied upon by major submarine powers". However, a panel on the Lockheed Martin stand at NEDS strongly suggests that the US company is in the frame for C718: 



The Saab/Damen C718 bid has also received support from the UK government. While the two companies will not comment in any detail, this is thought likely to relate to the release of sonar technology drawn from the Sonar 2076 system already in service on Royal Navy submarines.

Another argument deployed by Saab and Damen is that Sweden and the Netherlands share a similar 'triple helix' model – the symbiosis between defence, knowledge institutes, and industry – at an enterprise-level.  The two companies contend that this cultural convergence would foster the broadest engagement of the customer organisations, user communities, supply chains and academic centres so as to increase opportunities for high-value employment and maximise value to the Dutch taxpayer.  Furthermore, Saab and Damen see knowledge transfer enabling Dutch industry assuming responsibilities for through-life maintenance and lifecycle support, and thus sustain national knowledge and industrial capacity over the longer term.





The Saab/Damen team also aspires to jointly pursue export markets,  with Canada's projected Victoria-class replacement programme seen as a key target market.  "The generic C71 is a very flexible design," Gustafson explained. "We would develop knowledge under the parentage of the Netherlands customer, but we are confident that we could then export further variants to other NATO/EU partners."

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/12/saab-damen-offering-c718-submarine-to-the-netherlands/#prettyPhoto

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Decision time approaches for Walrus class submarine replacement

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/12/decision-time-approaches-for-walrus-class-submarine-replacement/ via @navalnewscom

[Parera]

O god.

Lui er komen geen 6 boten.

Ik zie het ook niet gebeuren, maar blijven dromen mag altijd  Ik zie meer kansen voor XLUUV's naast de 4 nieuwe boten.

[Harald]

Lui er komen geen 6 boten.

Laten ze eerst maar de keuze maken voor de 4 boten ! Hopelijk wordt de keus daadwerkelijk januari bekend gemaakt en dat er geen vertraging/uitstel.

Maar er kunnen natuurlijk wel meer boten komen van dezelfde klasse  als andere landen aansluiten 

[Master Mack]

Denk dat we realistisch moeten zijnen blij mogen zijn als we de 4 ASWF 4 FUAD 4 SUBS en 4+2 LPX gevuld gaan krijgen. Voor Nederland zijn 6+ onderzeeboten geschiedenis. Dit gaan we nooit meer bolwerken.

[Huzaar1]

O god.

Lui er komen geen 6 boten.

[jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)]

Ik weet niet of er officieel plannen zijn voor uitbreiding naar 6 boten maar ik zou groot voorstander zijn. Eventueel zelfs 2 batches van 3 boten of een batch van 4 + 2 aangepaste modellen met extra / andere capaciteiten.

Ik zou 6 boten (naast onderwaterdrones) toejuichen, zeker in een wereld waarin het onderzeebootwapen sterk groeit en oppervlakte eenheden steeds meer geconfronteerd zullen worden met hypersone dreigingen.

[Parera]

Als er officieel plannen zijn dan hoor je dat wel natuurlijk.
Maar laten we zeggen dat er genoeg werk zou zijn voor een 5e boot. Maar uitbreiding in de jaren '20 wordt heel onwaarschijnlijk.

Gelukkig zijn boot 3 en 4 pas klaar begin jaren '30. Dus kunnen boot 5 & 6 tot eind jaren '30 gebouwd worden

[Parera]

Er komen eerder meer dan minder boten.

Ik las dit bericht eerder andersom waardoor ik even schrok, daarna keek ik nog een keer naar de tekst en dat maakte het weer helemaal goed.

Ik weet niet of er officieel plannen zijn voor uitbreiding naar 6 boten maar ik zou groot voorstander zijn. Eventueel zelfs 2 batches van 3 boten of een batch van 4 + 2 aangepaste modellen met extra / andere capaciteiten.

[Huzaar1]

Er komen eerder meer dan minder boten.

[Harald]

Naval Group at NEDS 2023: Barracuda family submarine and rMCM vessel  ( De Franse kant ...    NL bedrijven welke deelnemen, kunnen ze steeds alleen maar TNO en RH Marine noemen ... )   

Interviews with Pierre-Eric Pommelet, Naval Group's CEO, and Thierry Petit, Submarine Marketing Manager, during NEDS (Netherlands Defence and Security exhibition) 2023 in Rotterdam.

Naval Group reaffirmed its commitment to a long-lasting partnership with the Netherlands, building up on the existing cooperation. Naval Group also showcased the unique technical know-how and expertise it can offer to support the Netherlands capability requirements.

Naval Group's Barracuda family submarine
In response to the Netherlands MOD's Replacement Netherlands Submarine Capability (RNSC) requirement, Naval Group has been proud to reaffirm its commitment to support the overarching objectives of strategic autonomy and expeditionary capability.
To address ambitious requirements, Naval Group offering is based on the sea-proven Barracuda- family. With the highest standards of excellence, operational performance and innovation, these submarines have demonstrated their stealth, acoustic discretion and superiority. Thanks to a native scalability, they offer significant growth capabilities.
The Barracuda family offers extensive operational capabilities and the latest technologies. It is one of the world's stealthiest submarines and it is designed to control all types of maritime spaces, from the high seas to coastal areas, and can be integrated within a naval force. Two units are already in service within the French Navy. This conventional attack submarine with a wide oceanic range allows its users to effectively defend and protect key maritime assets, both close and far from the homeland.

[Harald]

Nee dat lukt me niet. Kan niet copy pasten. Het artikel spreekt over dat de Britten cruciale technologie willen delen met ons (sonar) en de Amerikanen al hebben aangegeven hun CMS te willen bieden, en dat Nederland niet meer kijkt naar beste boot voor beste prijs, factor tijd is belangrijker geworden.

Ok thanks voor de verkorte versie 
   dan idd voor Saab/Damen gaan

[Huzaar1]

Klopt zie 7425, maar achter betaalmuur

Kun jij de rest plaatsen ? Toevallig

Nee dat lukt me niet. Kan niet copy pasten. Het artikel spreekt over dat de Britten cruciale technologie willen delen met ons (sonar) en de Amerikanen al hebben aangegeven hun CMS te willen bieden, en dat Nederland niet meer kijkt naar beste boot voor beste prijs, factor tijd is belangrijker geworden.

[Harald]

In volkskrant groot artikel over Britten die duwen naar Saab Damen boot.

Klopt zie 7425, maar achter betaalmuur

Kun jij de rest plaatsen ? Toevallig