Leopard 3

[Harald]

Hongarije of Slowakije?

Idd mijn fout. Politieke verandering is in Slowakije

https://www.hln.be/buitenland/pro-russische-oud-premier-robert-fico-wint-verkiezingen-in-slovakije~adfd972c/

[Enforcer]

Hongarije of Slowakije?

[Harald]

Doorverkopen aan de Russen zal best wat opleveren.

In relatie met de politieke verandering en verkiezingen ben ik benieuwd hoe dat verder gaat.

[Harald]

https://gagadget.com/en/tanks/324895-hungary-could-be-the-first-buyer-of-germanys-most-advanced-tank-the-kf51-panther-which-was-introduced-in-2022/

Hungary could be the first buyer of Germany's most advanced tank, the KF51 Panther, which was introduced in 2022

In 2022, German company Rheinmetall has unveiled a new tank. It is called the KF51 Panther and may soon get its first customer.

Here's What We Know
The first potential customer is Hungary. A few months ago it became known that the European country wants to build German tanks with its own forces. This is reported by the Handelsblatt edition.


Both parties are interested in cooperation. However, at the moment no contract has been signed between the governments of Hungary, Germany and Rheinmetall. It is worth noting that Hungary joined the KF51 programme last summer, which was announced by the country's Prime Minister Viktor Orban.

According to the source, the deal may be valued at more than $300 million. Serial production may start within 15-20 months. Armin Papperger, the head of Rheinmetall, said earlier about such terms.

[Huzaar1]

Ik verras mezelf telkens door een complete desinteresse in dit project, wat waarschijnlijk mijn voorgevoel over de betekenis en het lot van dit initiatief onderschrijft.

De Duitsers zijn een stuk mondiger dan voorheen, maar ik durf wel te stellen dat de Fransen de dwarsliggers zijn. Het is ook niet gek, de 2 landen lijken zo veel op elkaar dat tot 80 jaar geleden om die tig jaar een conflict werd opgevoerd om de geschillen uit te vechten.

[Harald]

MGCS: Zeitplan für zukünftiges Kampfpanzersystem deutlich verlängert   ( 10 jaar vertraging, 2035 -> 2045 )
https://esut.de/2023/09/meldungen/44630/mgcs-zeitplan-fuer-zukuenftiges-kampfpanzersystem-deutlich-verlaengert/

Het tijdschema voor de gereedheid van serieproductie van het Duits-Franse gevechtstanksysteem van de toekomst (Main Ground Combat System, MGCS) is met wel tien jaar uitgesteld.

Zoals blijkt uit een gezamenlijke persconferentie tussen de Duitse minister van Defensie Boris Pistorius en zijn Franse tegenhanger Sébastien Lecornu, bepalen de nieuwe plannen dat MGCS in de eerste helft van de jaren veertig gereed moet zijn voor serieproductie. De persconferentie vond plaats op 21 september op de Franse luchtmachtbasis in Évreux. Minister van Defensie Pistorius zei dat MGCS over ongeveer twintig jaar zou worden uitgerold. Lecornu noemde de periode 2040 tot 2045.

In de planning voor het grote project, die oorspronkelijk door het Ministerie van Defensie werd gecommuniceerd, werd bepaald dat het eerste serievoertuig in 2035 zou moeten worden afgeleverd ( meldt ES&T ). Dit betekent dat er bij aanvang van het project al sprake is van een afwijking van maximaal tien jaar.

.../...

rest van het artikel zie link

[Umbert]

of wordt het weer anders ... 

Germany, France eye new partners for next-gen tank in 2024

The defense ministers of France and Germany expect to begin negotiations for their next-generation tank project with industry leaders KNDS and Rheinmetall in 2024, after which other European countries could join the initiative.

Italy, the Netherlands and "many others" expressed an interest in joining the project to develop the Main Ground Combat System, or MGCS, German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said at a press conference at Evreux airbase west of Paris on Thursday.

There is the possibility of nations joining as "observers" as a first step, French Armed Forces Minister Sébastien Lecornu said. German and French top military leaders are in discussion with the Italian armed forces, who have their own future armored cavalry requirements, the minister said.

Berlin and Paris will spend the rest of the year hammering out of project specifications, after the two countries' army chiefs reported on the operational requirements for the replacement of Germany's Leopard 2 and France's Leclerc main battle tanks. That will put both governments in a position to uphold their military objectives, as MGCS contractors are expected to push their own ideas for the next-generation tank once negotiations begin, Pistorius said.

The agreement on operational requirements "shows to what point, basically, it won't be a new Leopard and it won't be a new Leclerc," Lecornu said. "The technological breakthroughs are going to be brutal."

The future tank is expected to come into service on the 2040-2045 horizon, according to Lecornu. The French minister said he hopes the first contracts will be signed in 2024.

Other interested EU countries will only be invited to join the project once France and Germany have defined the specs of the future tank, according to Lecornu.

The future tank will be modular, including platforms that can be either manned or automated, according to Lecornu. It will have a classic fire capability – "it goes without saying that the function of classic fire will not have disappeared" – but also electromagnetic weapons, electronic warfare functionality and laser weapons, the minister said.

The MGCS will require a reactive defense with a hard-kill capacity, drones to protect the tank, artificial intelligence functionality to coordinate fire in a connected environment, and the technological leap in terms of cybersecurity will be "absolutely colossal," Lecornu said.

.../...

Pistorius said the MGCS is "a lot more advanced" than a separate project by German, Spanish and Italian defense companies for a modern battle tank, and the two governments don't expect the industrial project, which responds to a European Union-defined capability gap, to compete with their plans.

.../...

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/09/22/germany-france-eye-new-partners-for-next-gen-tank-in-2024/

Denk allemaal een beetje achterhoede gevechten ben bang dat het project een kant is opgegaan die we al verwacht hadden.
Dat Nederland nu ook genoemd wordt is allemaal mooi en aardig, maar laten we eerst onze politiek een duidelijke uitspraak doen met verwachte tijdlijnen, van wat we nu willen wel of geen tanks en dan hoeveel dat is veel belangrijker, wat voor tank het wordt heeft denk ik minder prio. Omdat we in het kader van onze integratie met het Duitse leger bijna gedwongen zijn om dezelfde tanks te nemen als hun al hebben cq gaan krijgen.

[Harald]

of wordt het weer anders ... 

Germany, France eye new partners for next-gen tank in 2024

The defense ministers of France and Germany expect to begin negotiations for their next-generation tank project with industry leaders KNDS and Rheinmetall in 2024, after which other European countries could join the initiative.

Italy, the Netherlands and "many others" expressed an interest in joining the project to develop the Main Ground Combat System, or MGCS, German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said at a press conference at Evreux airbase west of Paris on Thursday.

There is the possibility of nations joining as "observers" as a first step, French Armed Forces Minister Sébastien Lecornu said. German and French top military leaders are in discussion with the Italian armed forces, who have their own future armored cavalry requirements, the minister said.

Berlin and Paris will spend the rest of the year hammering out of project specifications, after the two countries' army chiefs reported on the operational requirements for the replacement of Germany's Leopard 2 and France's Leclerc main battle tanks. That will put both governments in a position to uphold their military objectives, as MGCS contractors are expected to push their own ideas for the next-generation tank once negotiations begin, Pistorius said.

The agreement on operational requirements "shows to what point, basically, it won't be a new Leopard and it won't be a new Leclerc," Lecornu said. "The technological breakthroughs are going to be brutal."

The future tank is expected to come into service on the 2040-2045 horizon, according to Lecornu. The French minister said he hopes the first contracts will be signed in 2024.

Other interested EU countries will only be invited to join the project once France and Germany have defined the specs of the future tank, according to Lecornu.

The future tank will be modular, including platforms that can be either manned or automated, according to Lecornu. It will have a classic fire capability – "it goes without saying that the function of classic fire will not have disappeared" – but also electromagnetic weapons, electronic warfare functionality and laser weapons, the minister said.

The MGCS will require a reactive defense with a hard-kill capacity, drones to protect the tank, artificial intelligence functionality to coordinate fire in a connected environment, and the technological leap in terms of cybersecurity will be "absolutely colossal," Lecornu said.

.../...

Pistorius said the MGCS is "a lot more advanced" than a separate project by German, Spanish and Italian defense companies for a modern battle tank, and the two governments don't expect the industrial project, which responds to a European Union-defined capability gap, to compete with their plans.

.../...

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/09/22/germany-france-eye-new-partners-for-next-gen-tank-in-2024/

[Benji87]

Als je van al je zakelijke partners vijanden hebt gemaakt......

Tja, een modernisering zou wellicht nog kunnen. Een hoop bedrijven hebben ook gewoon vestigingen in UAE zitten dus theoretisch gezien is het een verplaatsing van assets maar in de praktijk zullen nog steeds een hoop partners alsnog deelnemen aan de modernisering van de Lecrec.

Maar uiteindelijk moet Frankrijk alsnog een opvolger vinden voor de Lecrec en dan heb je meer nodig dan een eigen wankele industrie en een kleine partner. Ik zie het wel gebeuren dat ze alsnog wel aansluiten bij het DUI/SP/IT/SW project. Aan de andere kant, het blijven Fransen

[pz]

Opvallende zaken van de afgelopen dagen bij de ontwikkeling van MBT's

1. Israel - Integratie helm (Helmet mounted display) en AI
2. K2 Polen - Drone jammer op de toren.

Vermoed dat we snel meer ontwikkelingen gaan zien van bovenstaande punten bij de Amerikanen en Duitsers. En de Fransen natuurlijk....  

Via https://twitter.com/mason_8718/status/1704424094501138725

Anti drone jammer on tank turret.

A new standard accessory for MBT.
The South Korean Hyundai Rotem has displayed evolved K2 Black Panther MBT in Poland MSPO 2023.
This modified K2 have additional side armor, APS, RWS and compact drone jammer device.

This compact jammer can provide protection for the vehicles from suicide, mortar drone or loitering munition without much modifications and space.

To my view, compact jammer is very useful and reasonable device to any kinds of vehicles than adding an armor and RWS.Not an option anymore!

[Zander]

La France veut établir une coopération avec les Émirats arabes unis pour moderniser le char Leclerc
https://www.opex360.com/2023/09/19/la-france-veut-etablir-une-cooperation-avec-les-emirats-arabes-unis-pour-moderniser-le-char-leclerc/

Frankrijk wil een samenwerking aangaan met de Verenigde Arabische Emiraten om de Leclerc-tank te moderniseren

Als je van al je zakelijke partners vijanden hebt gemaakt......

[Huzaar1]

Lol

[Harald]

La France veut établir une coopération avec les Émirats arabes unis pour moderniser le char Leclerc
https://www.opex360.com/2023/09/19/la-france-veut-etablir-une-cooperation-avec-les-emirats-arabes-unis-pour-moderniser-le-char-leclerc/

Frankrijk wil een samenwerking aangaan met de Verenigde Arabische Emiraten om de Leclerc-tank te moderniseren

[pz]

Israeli Army Takes Delivery of 5th Generation Merkava Barak Main Battle Tanks

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_september_2023_global_security_army_industry/israel_unveils_5th_generation_merkava_barak_main_battle_tank.html




Via onderstaande link is een video van bijna 5 minuten te zien van deze Merkava 5, wel Hebreeuws. (Kan de video niet vertalen).

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s1kygkvja

Introducing the new 5th generation Merkava, nicknamed Barak, which has just been delivered to the Israeli army within the 52nd Armored Battalion. The Merkava is Israel's iconic tank, and the primary idea behind this family of tanks is the protection of its crew. The unveiling of a new version is always a small event. Let's take a look at what we know about this new Main Battle Tank.

The Barak tank is the result of a collaborative effort involving the Armored Vehicles Directorate of the Defense Ministry, the IDF's Ground Forces, and the Armored Corps, as well as several Israeli defense companies such as Elbit Systems, Rafael, and Israel Aerospace Industries' Elta subsidiary. The tank is equipped with sensors, providing a "wide infrastructure of reliable sensors" for target detection. These sensors are part of an integrated system that allows for real-time sharing of intelligence information between the tank and other military units, heralding what the Israeli Ministry calls "a real revolution on the battlefield."

Drawing on the expertise gained from the creation, refinement, and manufacturing of its predecessors—Merkava Mk 1, Mk 2, and Mk 3 Main Battle Tanks (MBTs)—Israel has unveiled the enhanced Merkava Mk 4. The Merkava 5 represents a further upgrade of the Merkava IV, incorporating advancements in armor protection and digital warfare capabilities.

In terms of design, the Merkava V closely mirrors its predecessor, the Merkava IV. The layout features the driver's seat situated on the hull's left side, the turret positioned at the hull's rear, and the engine located at the front. The tank is operated by a four-member crew, which includes a driver, commander, gunner, and loader.

When it comes to firepower, the Merkava V retains the same armament configuration as the Merkava IV. It is equipped with a 120mm smooth-bore cannon, developed by Israel Military Industries, capable of firing high-penetration rounds and guided munitions up to a distance of 4,000 meters. Additional weaponry includes a 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun, another 7.62 mm machine gun mounted on the turret's right side, and an internally housed 60 mm breech-loaded mortar.

One of the features of the Barak tank is the high-tech helmet developed by Elbit Systems, dubbed IronVision. Similar to a fighter jet pilot's helmet, IronVision provides the tank commander with a 360-degree view of the battlefield and displays relevant information in real time. The helmet employs artificial intelligence capabilities to assist in target identification and engagement.

The Barak tank is also equipped with an advanced missile defense system called Windbreaker, developed by Rafael. This system is capable of detecting incoming missiles and causing them to detonate away from the tank. The tank's firepower has also been improved. The fire control system, also developed by Elbit, allows for "accurate attacks while idle and while moving," both during the day and at night.

Defense Minister Yoav Gallant emphasized the symbolic timing of the tank's unveiling, as Israel marks 50 years since the 1973 Yom Kippur War. He stated that the Barak tank represents "an extraordinary leap forward" in the capabilities of the Armored Corps and will "guarantee the IDF's qualitative advantage every time, in defense and attack."

The Merkava has been the IDF's main battle tank since the 1980s, and the Barak is expected to eventually replace the older Merkava models, solidifying its role as the main battle tank for the IDF's Armored Corps.

[Harald]

Dus in feite een KF51 met diesel elektrische aandrijving? Want de KF51 heeft al een Leopard 2 onderstel

Dan had ik gelijk alwel gezegd dat het een KF51 zal worden .. 

Vanuit Duitse zijde bekeken ;
KMW => vernieuwd onderstel
RM => vernieuwde toren, ala KF51

Leopard 2AX eerst met 120mm of zouden ze wel de 130mm gaan invoeren ?
ik denk zelf : de 120mm

Laat NL dan ook maar aansluiten bij deze ontwikkeling, de FR/DU samenwerking/ontwikkeling is zo goed als dood. Veel over en weer achterdocht en verwijten. Is geen samenwerking, maar eerder tegenwerking.