Canadian Surface Combatant

Gestart door Zeewier, 06/02/2017 | 17:32 uur

walter leever

#24
Wat een zooitje daar,blijven de "dead-line" uitstellen(regering/parlement),dus er is nu een competitie zonder "dead-line",wow. :dead:

Nou zijn er al een paar werven(scheepsbouwers/ontwerpers),die boos zijn,omdat de Type-26 nu ook kans maakt zonder dat er 1 gebouwd is. :omg: (weet u nog er zou gekozen worden uit bestaande ontwerpen)

http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2017/07/25/deadline-for-warship-designs-missing-in-action-3/#.WXd3wemQzwo

Commentaar op 't stukkie van een Canuck;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJKMji2688M

walter leever

#23
Het PBO (Parliamentary Budget Officer)rapport is uit voor de verwerving van de Surface Combatants.

Het zou gaan om 15 schepen in AAW en ASW variant(alhoewel ik ook 6 ben tegengekomen),tevens staat de "short-list van de kanshebbende werven erin(links)

In dit budget zit niet evt.upgrades,traing,"spare-parts,etc dus gaat helemaal nergens over(bedrag bedoel ik) :dead:

Waarschijnlijk 6 starships. :devil:

Dan was de Walrus affaire nog maar klein bier,amateuristisch nivootje. :devil:


Quote

    The Cost of Canada's Surface Combatants
    1 June 2017

    Get the report
    The Cost of Canada's Surface Combatants.pdf
    http://www.pbo-dpb.gc.ca/web/default/files/Documents/Reports/2017/CSC%20Costing/CSC_EN.pdf

    Summary

    The objective of this report is to provide a cost estimate of the CSC program. This estimate includes costs resulting from development, production, spare parts, ammunition, training, government program management and upgrades to existing facilities. It does not include costs associated with the operation, maintenance and mid-life refurbishment of the ships [emphasis added], other than the spare parts that will be purchased when the ships are built.

    There are two primary cost drivers for surface combatants: the ship's weight and the combat system. The weight of surface combatants has been increasing, while their combat systems have become more and more complex, both factors driving up their cost.

    Assumptions which the PBO used for it estimation were:

        Contract awarded in 2018
        Construction starts in 2021
        15th ship delivered in 2041
        CSC based on an existing design with 5,400 tons used as the reference lightship weight [emphasis added]

    Total program cost in FY2017 dollars is estimated to be $39.94 billion or $61.82 billion in then-year dollars. The original budget for the CSC was $26.2 billion (from 2008 and under review) [emphasis added] and it is estimated to buy six ships...
    http://www.pbo-dpb.gc.ca/en/blog/news/CSC_costing

PS die dingen (als 't er maar 6 zijn)kosten meer als een Ford Class Carrier,wow.(in then-year dollars)

walter leever

#22
Weet niet zeker of 't hiero hoort,denk 't wel;   :P

Naar 't schijnt is Irving op zoek naar mensen in Australie;  (Dus in Polen en nu in Australie)

   
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Canadian shipbuilder hopes to poach Aussie talent as SA projects wind down
By political reporter Angelique Donnellan

Updated 26 minutes ago




A major Canadian shipbuilder has launched a bold recruitment drive Down Under looking to poach South Australian workers amid the local industry's so-called "valley of death".

In a newspaper advertisement and a social media campaign, Irving Shipbuilders calls on Australian workers to move to Halifax, Nova Scotia, and "North America's most modern shipyard".

Over the next 30 years, Irving said it would be constructing up to 21 modern patrol ships and surface combatants.

"By joining our team of more than 1,500 shipbuilders you can enjoy a dynamic, diverse and family-friendly career with a company dedicated to your success, health, wellness and safety," the company's buildshipsincanada website said.

Premier Jay Weatherill said delays in Federal Government decision-making meant Irving was seizing on a gap in work between the Air Warfare Destroyers, Future Frigates and submarines.
Irving Shipbuilders in Halifax.
Photo: Irving Shipbuilders is offering Aussie workers a relocation package and support if they move to Canada. (Supplied: Irving Shipbuilders)

"It is disappointing that we've had this dithering between Defence contracts and so now we've got this valley of death, where a lot of work is going to be lost down at Techport," Mr Weatherill said.

    "We shouldn't have been dithering about future submarines toying with the idea of sending them to Japan, many years were wasted.

"There is a risk that we'll lose some of our workers, obviously we want to retain as many here as we can," Mr Weatherill said.

A spokesperson for Federal Defence Industry Minister Christopher Pyne said: "Labor's six years of indecision has created this mess".

"It's the Turnbull Coalition Government that has commissioned 54 vessels and is investing $89 billion in continuous shipbuilding, which will create 5,000 direct jobs.

"The Turnbull Government have a plan and we are working with stakeholders across the country to implement it."
The company's pitch includes:

    Travel to Halifax, Nova Scotia, for you and your family
    Immigration support and assistance through to permanent residency
    Assistance integrating into the community
    Buddy program to ease transition into the workforce
    Generous relocation package

ASC at Osborne has been shedding hundreds of employees because work on the Air Warfare Destroyer project is winding down.

On its website, Irving said it was looking for engineers (hull, mechanical and electrical), combat systems engineers and specialists and ironworkers.

"Irving Shipbuilding is proud to provide our workforce with stable, good-paying jobs you can raise a family and build a future on," the website advertisement said.

The company will hold a recruitment session in Adelaide on April 20 as well as in Melbourne and Sydney.
Halifax vs Adelaide

Nova Scotia is a province almost completely surrounded by ocean in Canada's east, and is one of the country's three maritime provinces.
Ice hockey players celebrate a goal.
Photo: Ice hockey is the number one game in town. (Flickr: Doug Kerr)

It has a population of almost 1 million people and its capital is Halifax was "one of the best places to live in Canada".

Any South Australians interested in moving there should pack thermals, as temperatures over winter can drop to -15 degrees Celsius.

Like Adelaide, sport is important in Nova Scotia but any Aussies will need to swap punts for pucks, with ice hockey the top game in town.

Tourism Nova Scotia describes the province as a place where you can "feel your pace fall in sync with the rhythm of the sea, as the clean salt air breathes life into an afternoon".

"Immerse yourself in culture that ranges from traditional to avant-garde, from bagpipes to world-class golf."

Food is described as typically Canadian with an emphasis on local seafood.




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Canadian shipbuilder hopes to poach Aussie talent as SA projects wind down - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-07/canadian-shipbuilder-reveals-plan-to-raid-aussie-talent-pool/8426206

PS ,up-grades,training,onderdelen(spare),etc zit niet in dit Budget/bedrag.


walter leever

#21
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 18/02/2017 | 15:22 uur
HMCS Athabaskan leaves fond memories in its wake

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1442723-hmcs-athabaskan-leaves-fond-memories-in-its-wake#.WKgombnJaws.twitter

je ziet dus dat ze al schepen uit de vaart aan 't nemen  zijn(gewoon omdat ze "op"zijn)en er nog geen zicht is op vervanging(ik bedoel er is nog geen ontwerp gekozen),met alle gevolgen van dien. :annoyed:

"Its departure leaves Canada without an effective destroyer force until the new Canadian Surface Combatant vessels are launched next decade."

Heel sterk bezig daar,trouwens wij moeten niet ver kijken,de M's tegen de tijd dat die (eindelijk eens)vervangen gaan worden(is ook nog niet veel over bekend,'t ontwerp)zijn die dus ook gewoon "op". :dead:

Voor beide landen geld:uitstel....................uitstel.......................uitstel.............................en nu dus problemen.(ook boeggolf voor Canada),eigenlijk meer een tsunami.

jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter)

Citaat van: Thomasen op 18/02/2017 | 15:00 uur
Die Iroquois van ze is 45 jaar oud. Lijkt me dat die rap vervangen moet worden.
De Halifax klasse zijn van iets voor de M-fregatten, maar beter up-to-date als ik eea over de refit zo lees.
Evengoed, zal het een goed aantal jaren duren voor de laatste 'CSC' opgeleverd wordt. Lijkt me dat ze inderdaad behoorlijk haast hebben.

HMCS Athabaskan leaves fond memories in its wake

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1442723-hmcs-athabaskan-leaves-fond-memories-in-its-wake#.WKgombnJaws.twitter

walter leever

#19
Het bieden voor 't ontwerp(en deels bouwen) van de CSC is voor is voor 6 maanden uitgesteld. :dead:

Duurt dus nog eens een half jaar voor er een beslissing zal vallen(mogelijks),van de 12 "aanbieders"zijn er 4 die meer tijd vragen om hun zaakjes op "orde" te krijgen(lees aanpassen aan eisen Canada)

De Italianen (Fincantieri)willen meer duidelijkheid (lees betere structuur)in de hele opzet van de "biedingen"(is nogal een zooitje zo lijkt 't.) ;)


The submission of bids for a new fleet of future warships for the Royal Canadian Navy will be delayed, the federal government has confirmed.

Companies were to submit their bids on the Canadian Surface Combatant project by April 27 but a third of the firms approved by the Liberal government to submit proposals had requested extensions.

Bids are now due June 22, Public Services and Procurement Canada said in a news release.

"In order to meet the requirements of the Royal Canadian Navy and provide economic benefits to Canada it is important to ensure that the government receives the maximum number of bids that meet technical requirements and offer high quality economic benefits to Canada," the department noted in its release.

"At this point, based on feedback from industry, an extension is the best course of action."

Last week the Ottawa Citizen revealed that a third of the 12 companies involved in the project, which will cost at least $26 billion, had asked the Liberal government to delay bidding. They warned government that allowing only six months to compile bids for one of the largest procurements in Canadian history didn't make sense. The extent of the technical data and other information the Canadian government required was overwhelming, company representatives added.

At the same time, the six-month bidding period didn't allow enough time to make arrangements with Canadian companies to be part of the bids, defence sources said.

A winner is expected to be announced sometime in the fall of this year. Construction of the vessels is expected to start in the early 2020s.

The extension follows comments from Procurement Minister Judy Foote to journalists Feb. 7 suggesting the Canadian Surface Combatant program was running smoothly. "We will always consult with industry, and that is why we were successful in terms of the CSC," Foote said. "The fact that some people are questioning it is something we'll look at, but in reality, of the 12 primes, eight have not expressed any issue with respect to the deadline."

Defence industry sources say problems have also emerged because the federal government and Irving Shipbuilding, the prime contractor for the project, have not been answering key questions. Bidders have submitted 164 questions about the program but so far have only received 88 answers, Public Services and Procurement Canada also confirmed.

In addition, one of the world's largest shipbuilders – Fincantieri -had told Foote the project was so poorly structured it had doubts whether it could bid unless significant changes were made.

But in an email to the Citizen, Lucas Maglieri, a consultant for Fincantieri, stated that the company, "remains interested in doing business in Canada and in the CSC project – we continue to assess our options for the Canadian marketplace."


"Bidding on Canadian Surface Combatant program to be delayed, federal government confirms"

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/bidding-on-canadian-surface-combatant-program-to-be-delayed-federal-government-confirms

walter leever

Citaat van: Lex op 16/02/2017 | 22:36 uur
Verzoeke een verwijzing/link bij het bericht te plaatsen.

Lex
Algeheel beheerder


Onderin mijn bericht aangepast,dus verifieerbaar. ;)

ARM-WAP

Citaat van: Lex op 16/02/2017 | 22:36 uur
Verzoeke een verwijzing/link bij het bericht te plaatsen.
Lex
Algeheel beheerder

Die heeft Walter reeds geplaatst met dat artikel.
Irving probeert te recruteren in Gdansk, Polen.

Lex

Citaat van: walter leever op 16/02/2017 | 22:31 uur
De Canadezen zijn naarstig op zoek naar vakmensen voor al die te bouwden schepen en kijken daarbij dus over de landsgrenzen. ;)
Verzoeke een verwijzing/link bij het bericht te plaatsen.

Lex
Algeheel beheerder

walter leever

#15
De Canadezen zijn naarstig op zoek naar vakmensen voor al die te bouwden schepen en kijken daarbij dus over de landsgrenzen. ;)



Irving is currently looking abroad for employees to work in their Halifax shipyard.

A poster spotted by a Chronicle Herald reader living in Gdansk, Poland reads "Join the next generation of Canadian shipyard workers" and advertises an upcoming job fair.

The poster says Irving is looking to looking to hire experienced production managers and shipbuilders/fitters.

No one from Irving was immediately available for an interview, but company spokesman Sean Lewis told the Chronicle Herald in an emailed statement that, while the shipyard's workforce is 95 per cent Canadian and Irving actively recruits Canadians first, in some cases either shipbuilding expertise does not exist in Canada or the company has exhausted efforts to recruit Canadians for certain positions.

"Therefore some shipbuilding expertise needs to be hired internationally," Lewis said.

"These individuals are intended to eventually become Canadian citizens and will contribute greatly to increasing the shipbuilding knowledge, experience and expertise of our current workforce."

While Irving didn't say what countries it was currently advertising in, or how many jobs it needed to fill, an industry source confirmed it's a small number of positions.
A Polish newspaper advertising jobs with Irving Shipbuilding. (Contributed)

Retired navy commander and defence analyst Ken Hansen said given that the shipbuilding industry in Canada is relatively new, it's not surprising Irving is looking to other seafaring nations for expertise.

"They've been working on the AOPS for a while now, and they've probably had a good chance to assess the skills they have in house," he said.

Hansen said it would be impossible for someone new to the business to have the type of practical work experience that would allow them to see problems before they arise or assess certain risk factors.

Gdansk seems like a logical place to advertise.

Related:

    McCoy: More work for Irving means cheaper ships
    Irving addressing gender gap with new program
    $200m Irving loan surety kept secret
    President fires back over shipbuilding criticisms

The Polish city, located on the Baltic coast, is the country's main seaport and is steeped in hundreds of years of shipbuilding history.

"They'll be the knowledge transfer people, they'll be helping the young people coming out of community colleges and from different industries get into the shipbuilding the game, transfer the experience the best they can, be the mentors and the guides for what's coming next," he said.

Nova Scotia Opposition leader Jamie Baillie said the situation underscores the need to reintroduce vocational training back into schools — something he promised a Progressive Conservative government would do within 100 days of taking office.

"We've had five years to ensure that we're training the next generation of Nova Scotians to fill these jobs, but neither the NDP or Premier McNeil's Liberals have had the foresight to ensure that we prepared our own citizens for these jobs."

Labour minister Kelly Regan was not available for an interview but a spokesperson for the department said in an emailed statement that the Department of Labour is focused on ensuring that Nova Scotians have the skills, training and experience they need to take full advantage of opportunities in the province.

Irving is the prime contractor for the combat portion of the government's massive multibillion-dollar National Shipbuilding Strategy and is responsible for building six Arctic Offshore Patrol Ships as well as the navy's new fleet of up to 15 Canadian Surface Combatants.

The company currently employs approximately 1,500 people — including almost 900 tradespeople — at its Halifax shipyard and expects to expand to 2,400 at peak production.


http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1442036-exclusive-ships-start-in-poland-irving-looks-to-europe-for-n.s.-shipbuilding?from=most_read&most_read=1442036&most_read_ref=%2Fnovascotia%2F1442036-exclusive-ships-start-in-poland-irving-looks-to-europe-for-n.s.-shipbuilding

Poleme

Stel je wilt als toeleverancier het nood aggregaat voor de KDOORMAN leveren, of je wilde graag alle mangaten leveren t.b.v. de RDAM.
Dan krijg je van MinDef voor deze relatief kleinschalige en eenvoudige onderdelen al een 'ouderwets dik telefoonboek' aan documentatie.
Ben je echter aannemer van een project a la Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding.  Dan neemt het aantal dikke telefoonboeken flink toe, denk aan een aantal grote boekenkasten.
Nulla tenaci invia est via - Voor de doorzetter is geen weg onbegaanbaar.

Lex

Citaat van: Poleme op 12/02/2017 | 18:25 uur
Dan heb jij nog nooit de benodigde documentatie bij te bouwen KM schepen gezien.  ;D  Daar worden ook flink wat bomen aan gespendeerd.
Zou je dit nader willen verklaren?

Harald

Citaat van: Poleme op 12/02/2017 | 18:25 uur
Dan heb jij nog nooit de benodigde documentatie bij te bouwen KM schepen gezien.  ;D  Daar worden ook flink wat bomen aan gespendeerd.
Dat de aan te leveren docu flink is zal altijd zo zijn, maar het ging meer om de vraagstellingen welke beantwoord moesten worden.

Poleme

Citaat van: Harald op 06/02/2017 | 20:43 uur
Wat ik zo begrepen, gelezen heb gaat de Canadese Tender best ver in het aan te leveren documenten, gegevens wat er allemaal gebruikt moet gaan worden in en aan de schepen.

Tevens worden de vragen en eisen zo geformuleerd dat de werven aan moeten geven WAAROM de werven vinden dat hun gemaakte keuzes de beste en HOE ze daar toe komen.
Het is niet alleen maar een WAT de werven willen leveren, maar meer de tot standkoming van keuzes.
Dan heb jij nog nooit de benodigde documentatie bij te bouwen KM schepen gezien.  ;D  Daar worden ook flink wat bomen aan gespendeerd.
Nulla tenaci invia est via - Voor de doorzetter is geen weg onbegaanbaar.

walter leever

#10
Citaat van: jurrien visser (JuVi op Twitter) op 11/02/2017 | 16:33 uur
Is dan ook een prijs/kwaliteitsverhouding topper... al kan ik me voorstellen dat een Canadese variant wat aanpassing benodigd zou hebben gehad voor Arctische omstandigheden.

Idd,en er moesten aanpassingen gedaan worden,maar bijv. ook aan de Fremm(als voorbeeld)romp moest dikker om eventueel door/tussen 't ijs te kunnen varen(niks onoverkomelijks. ;))

@Thomasen;eerst was er 't plan om ook AAW fregatten te kopen,daarom was de LCF dus in de running(ook door 't gebruik van APAR,zoals al uitgelegd)
Wat ik begrepen heb is dat ze nu voor een MP optie gaan en dus de AAW variant hebben laten varen(punn intended.  :devil: )