Russia in talks on buying French warship

[Tanker]

Kan de EU niet eisen dat deze deal on hold gezet word, Rusland heeft namelijk ook scheit aan de sancties die door de VS en EU opgelegd zijn aan Iran, tevens hebben ze nu S-300 raketten geplaatst in Zuid-Ossetie en Abchazie......

Zij schijt aan ons, wij schijt aan hun....

[Lex]

French warships for Russia to be armed with Ka-52 helicopters

Mistral-class helicopter carriers, which Russia plans to buy from France, will be armed with Russian Ka-52 Alligator helicopters, Air Force Commander Colonel General Alexander Zelin told the Ekho Moskvy FM station on Saturday.

He emphasized that the Ka-52 Alligator helicopters are very advanced and are equal to best foreign models.

The Ka-52 is armed with 30-mm cannon, Vikhr (Whirlwind) laser guided missiles, rockets, including S-24s, as well as bombs.

The Ka-52 is a modification of the basic Ka-50 Hokum model. The development of the Ka-52 started in 1994 in Russia, but its serial production began only in 2008.

The helicopter is also equipped with two radars, one for ground and one for aerial targets and a Samshite nighttime-daytime thermal sighting system.

Russia is negotiating the purchase of at least one French-built Mistral-class amphibious assault ship and plans to build three more vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 armored vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 personnel.

The Russian military has said it plans to use Mistral ships in its Northern and Pacific fleets.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase, and some believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

In April, the head of the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation, Mikhail Dmitriev, said the Mistral deal would be concluded by the end of the year.

MOSCOW, August 14 (RIA Novosti)

[Lex]

France To Build Russia 2 Ships: Sarkozy

SAINT-NAZAIRE, France - France will build at least two high-tech amphibious assault ships for the Russian navy, President Nicolas Sarkozy announced July 23, on a visit to a western shipyard.

Russia has been negotiating with France to buy up to four Mistral-class helicopter carriers, despite concerns among Paris' NATO allies over the transfer of western naval technology to their former Cold War foe.

"With our Russian friends, you are going to build the two BPCs," Sarkozy told workers at the STX shipyard in Saint-Nazaire, referring to the French abbreviation for the 21,300-ton vessels.

"We're still negotiating the contract, but the decision to go ahead is certain," the president added.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin told AFP last month that Moscow would only go ahead with the deal if it includes a transfer of the technology that makes the Mistral one of the most powerful in the French fleet.

He put the price tag of the vessel at around 300 million euros apiece ($388 million), and said that it would be a good deal for French shipyards at a difficult economic time.

But some U.S. lawmakers and the governments of new NATO members on the Baltic fear that the added punch the Mistral would give Russia's naval forces will encourage the Kremlin to throw its weight around in its backyard.

By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 23 Jul 2010 12:06

[Lex]

Putin Lieutenant Put In Charge Of Mistral Deal: Report

MOSCOW - Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has appointed his influential deputy, Igor Sechin, to oversee buying Mistral warships, a move that may hinder talks with France, a report said on July 2.

Sechin, who is also board chairman of state conglomerate United Shipbuilding Corporation (OSK), is considered a top opponent of purchasing the Mistral without its cutting-edge technology, Kommersant newspaper reported, citing sources in the shipbuilding corporation.

While the Russian military back the purchase, the shipbuilding corporation wants to assemble such ships in Russia without actually purchasing them from France, Kommersant said, adding that the difference in opinion led to a "serious conflict" between the two sides.

Sechin has been put in charge of a special commission that will oversee the Mistral purchase, government newspaper Rossiiskaya Gazeta said on its website earlier this week.

During a visit to Paris last month, Putin insisted in talks with French President Nicolas Sarkozy that the deal to buy the ships should include top-of-the-range technology.

France has said it will not lump sophisticated navigation systems and other sensitive technology into the deal for the ships, that cost about 500 million euros ($600 million) each.

The deal would be the first sale of advanced military hardware to Russia by a NATO country.

Kommersant, quoting sources, also said that OSK was in talks with South Korean shipbuilder STX over the possible construction of a warship similar to Mistral in the Russian town of Kronshtadt near Saint Petersburg.

An OSK spokesman was not immediately available for comment when reached by AFP.

AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 2 Jul 2010 11:31

[Lex]

Russia Wants All Technology On French-Built Mistrals

PARIS - Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on June 11 insisted in talks with President Nicolas Sarkozy that a controversial deal to buy French warships include cutting-edge technology, officials said.

The sale of up to four Mistral-class assault ships is seen as France's most ambitious bid yet to reach out to Russia, but negotiations have stumbled over Moscow's demands for a transfer of technology.

The deal would be the first sale of advanced military hardware to Russia by a NATO country.

Putin said in an interview this week that a deal on the Mistral, which has been under negotiation for more than five months, is possible only if the vessel comes fully-equipped.

France has said it will not lump sophisticated navigation systems and other sensitive technology into the deal for the ships, which each cost about 500 million euros ($600 million).

During a working luncheon at the Elysee Palace, Putin held an in-depth discussion about the deal with the French president, according to a Russian official, but no breakthrough was announced.

The official, who asked not to be named, said a working group would be set up by Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin, presumably to iron out lingering differences.

"Putin and Sarkozy discussed in detail the cooperation in the area of building military vessels," a Russian official said. "Sechin has been tasked with setting up a working group on that issue."

Earlier in central Paris, Putin opened a big exhibition showcasing Franco-Russian cooperation, saying France and Russia must work together to keep their competitive edge in science and technology.

"In scientific and technological areas, we must unite our efforts," he said.

The sale of the Mistral warships, which can carry 16 helicopters and a 750-strong landing force, has also run into complications over Moscow's insistence that three of the four vessels be built in Russia.

"For us the most important thing is to buy technology. That is the future," Russian Industry Minister Viktor Khristenko said.

French officials said the transfer of technology was linked to a decision on where the ships would be built.

"If part of the ship is built in Russia, it will be by Russian engineers and workers, so there will be a transfer of know-how," said an aide to Sarkozy, who asked not to be named.

"This issue has to be negotiated. That is what the president told Vladimir Putin," he added.

Russia's neighbors in the Baltics and Georgia, along with the United States, have raised objections over the sale. France has countered that Russia must be treated like a partner and not a threat in Europe.

There have been concerns that the warships could be deployed in the Black Sea, where tensions are high following a brief war between Russia and Georgia in 2008 and among ethnic Russians living in Ukraine's Crimea region.

Russia's military chief of staff Gen. Nikolai Makarov said in Moscow this week that the vessel could be used to patrol waters near Pacific islands that are the subject of a long-running dispute with Japan.

"For us, this deal is interesting only if it is accomplished with a parallel transfer of technology," Putin said June 9.

The Russian leader met with his former French counterpart, Sarkozy's predecessor Jacques Chirac, first thing June 11 and was to have talks later with the head of French oil giant Total, Christophe de Margerie.

The countries also cooperated in pushing through fresh sanctions this week against Iran over its suspect nuclear program.

A French official said Putin had told Sarkozy that Russia would not go ahead with the sale of S-300 air defense missiles to Iran, in line with U.N. sanctions, a decision welcomed by the French president.

AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 11 Jun 2010 15:12

[andré herc]

Russia presses for French warship technology
By ANGELA CHARLTON (AP)

PARIS — Russian decision-makers pressed France on Friday for access to warship technology, while France's biggest company sought a bigger chunk of Russia's oil and gas business.

No breakthrough announcements were made on either front, but Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin looked confident of France's economic loyalty during a trip to Paris dominated by talk of trade.

Putin and French President Nicolas Sarkozy agreed that a pending deal to build four French Mistral-class warships for Russia's navy would be a "50-50" project, according to Sarkozy's office. The project, what would be the largest military deal between a NATO country and Moscow, has worried Russia's neighbors such as Georgia and some of France's NATO partners.

Sarkozy insisted in his talks with Putin that the sale is a "political signal" more than a purely commercial deal, an effort to keep Russia engaged with the West, according to Sarkozy's office.

Both sides are still working out how much of the ships will be built in France and how much in Russia — a key question, given the many jobs that would create — and the sensitive issue of how much military technology France will share with Russia.

Russia's industry minister, Viktor Khristenko, told The Associated Press that "it would be better to bring the construction to Russia" as soon as possible — and he said he wants to eventually expand cooperation with France to include joint submarine, fighter jet or other manufacturing.

Putin, who has boosted Russia's economic ties with Germany and Italy, has been increasingly focusing attention on France in recent years. Sarkozy is going to St. Petersburg next week to speak at a major economic forum.

google.com

[Reinier]

@ARM-WAP

Ik denk dat je gelijk hebt dat de Russen gebruik maken van de verslechterde situatie op de West-Europese werven.
Niet alleen de Franse werven hebben last van terug lopende orders, zo zal ook De Schelde waarschijnlijk minder orders van onze marine krijgen de komende jaren. Er is een redelijk kans aanwezig dat er maar 2 van de 4 OPV's gebouwd gaan worden. En het zal mij niet verbazen als de JSS ook gecanceld gaat worden.

Je geeft al aan dat de Fransen alles aan iedereen verkopen, zolang ze maar verkopen. Ook krijgt de Franse industrie altijd hun van de overheid; is het niet in de vorm van verkapte staatssteun dan gaat de premier wel op pad voor ze. Zoals Sarkozy laatst nog naar Brazilië ging om een grote defensie order er door te drukken/ veilig stellen.

Van onze politici hoeft je dan (nu) niet verwachten, die zijn nu druk bezig om eigen baantjes veilig te stellen na 9 juni. Vraag mij af hoe druk De Schelde achter de schermen bezig is om alsnog deze order van de Russen te krijgen. Ze hebben het goed gedaan met de orders uit Indonesië en Marokko. Vooral deze laatste order was natuurlijk zeer goed gedaan, aangezien de Marokkanen voorheen uitsluitend hun materieel in Frankrijk kochten.

[ARM-WAP]

Defense analysts here agreed that Serdyukov was attempting to press Paris for a better deal for Russia, as there were reports that France might be reluctant to sell Mistral with its advanced electronic systems.

De schepen die Nederland bouwt zitten Thales (=Frans) systemen. Dat zou dan geen probleem zijn?
Volgens mij kunnen de Fransen dat dan ook blokkeren; export van een Nederlands schip met Franse apparatuur?

Ik denk dat dat ook voor het eerst zou zijn, mochten de Fransen opeens zo terughoudend zijn.
Ze hebben voordien genoeg materiaal aan de Chinezen verkocht die dan dmv reverse engineering kopies gebouwd hebben van hele wapensystemen (crotale naval, de 100mm Creusot Loire, zelfs de exocet en helicopters als de Super Frelon en Dauphin).
Van smeergeldaffaires zijn ze ook niet vies (o.a. Dassault en DCN zijn hierop wel degelijk betrapt).

Ik denk dat de Russen hier gewoon aan het pushen zijn om hun schepen goedkoper te bekomen dan waarvoor de fransen ze willen bouwen. Franse werven doen het momenteel niet zo goed gezien de lokale bestellingen met moeite voor de helft voldaan worden: Horizon (slechts 2 van de vier gebouwd) FREMM, de beslissing voor de bouw van een tweede vliegdekschip is uitgesteld tot volgend jaar, nieuwe SSN's...
Het werk droogt er dus op en de bestellingen worden over langere periodes gespreid waardoor de project- en bouwkost per eenheid van de te bouwen schepen alleen maar omhoog gejaagd wordt.

Anderzijds lijkt het erop dat de Russen alsnog geinteresseerd zouden zijn in andere ontwerpen... Uiteindelijk doen zij wat iedereen doet: het onderste uit de kan halen bij de aankoop van dure stukken...

[Reinier]

Defense analysts here agreed that Serdyukov was attempting to press Paris for a better deal for Russia, as there were reports that France might be reluctant to sell Mistral with its advanced electronic systems.

De schepen die Nederland bouwt zitten Thales (=Frans) systemen. Dat zou dan geen probleem zijn?
Volgens mij kunnen de Fransen dat dan ook blokkeren; export van een Nederlands schip met Franse apparatuur?

[Lex]

Russia: We're Looking At Alternatives To Mistral

MOSCOW - Russia is looking at alternatives to the French amphibious assault ship Mistral, including proposals from Spain and the Netherlands, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said May 24.

"On the helicopter-carrier, we now have pre-contract negotiations with three countries - France, Spain and the Netherlands," the minister told RIA-Novosti, the state press agency. "We plan to sign a contract for four such ships: one will be built abroad, and three will be built with the participation of the Russian shipbuilders, with the fourth ship to be fully assembled in Russia."

Defense analysts here agreed that Serdyukov was attempting to press Paris for a better deal for Russia, as there were reports that France might be reluctant to sell Mistral with its advanced electronic systems.

France has agreed to sell one assault ship to Russia and was considering Moscow's request to build three similar vessels in Russia under license.

The potential deal would be Russia's biggest-ever foreign defense purchase, with experts estimating the price tag for a Mistral at about $750 million.

The potential deal has alarmed NATO's Baltic states, as well as Georgia, with whom Russia had a brief war in August 2008.

Russian Navy Chief Vladimir Vysotsky said in November that if Russia had a Mistral-class assault ship, it would take 40 minutes to put troops onto Georgian shores from the Russian military base in Novorossisk, instead of 26 hours as it was during the 2008 conflict.

French president Nicholas Sarkozy defended the deal when he met with U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates in February, saying that Russia's purchase of Mistral would pose no military threat to NATO.

In March, during the talks between Sarkozy and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian leader called the upcoming deal a "symbol of trust."

Serdyukov said May 24 that the Mistrals or similar ships will be assigned to the Northern Fleet in the Arctic or to the Pacific Fleet. He didn't name either the fleet in the Black Sea, where Georgia is located, nor the fleet in the Baltic Sea.

A Mistral-class ship can carry 470 troops - 900 troops for short distances - or 40 tanks, and carries eight cargo and eight combat helicopters. France has two Mistrals and is building a third.

AFP,
Published: 25 May 2010 15:35

[KapiteinRob]

niet teveel weg maar ook weer niet overdrijven.

Welja, ga lekker door met dat "er kan/moet nog een beetje weg"..... Gewoon niets meer weg of radicale keuzes maken. Die kaasschaaf is ook al versleten.

[Pascal2702]

Ze maker er iets moois van.
Die generaal Rob Bertholee (NLD moet twee missies kunnen draaien) zou eens in discussie moeten gaan met die bezuinigers, misschien komen ze dan tot een mooie tussenoplossing, niet teveel weg maar ook weer niet overdrijven.

[Reinier]

is dat in verband met de bezuinigingen of iets anders?

Inderdaad ivm bezuinigingen. En als bonus kunnen ze ook nog 2 nieuwe OPV's krijgen, zo van de werf en nog nooit gebruikt. Tenminste als de volgende regering de recent gepresenteerde 'Verkenningen' gaat uitvoeren.
Voordat ze de RDAM gaan krijgen, vaart deze nog langs de hoogste bieder om een 60-tal Leo 2A6 af te leveren. Hebben we volgens de 'Verkenningen' ook niet meer nodig......  

[Pascal2702]

is dat in verband met de bezuinigingen of iets anders?

[KapiteinRob]

Als de Russen nog even geduld hebben, kunnen ze voor een prikkie de RDAM kopen.....