Russia in talks on buying French warship

[Elzenga]

Spanje en Nederland betrokken bij de bouw van de Franse schepen? heb ik wat gemist?

Ik denk eerder dat hier bedoeld wordt dat zij buiten de boot vallen.

ok..dan past het weer in wat ik er ook van had begrepen

[Lex]

Spanje en Nederland betrokken bij de bouw van de Franse schepen? heb ik wat gemist?

Ik denk eerder dat hier bedoeld wordt dat zij buiten de boot vallen.

[Elzenga]

"Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said earlier on Monday that Russia had reached the final stage of pre-contract talks with France, Spain and the Netherlands on the purchase of four of the French warships."

Spanje en Nederland betrokken bij de bouw van de Franse schepen? heb ik wat gemist?

[Ace1]

The United Shipbuilding Corporation, which owns shipbuilding assets in Russia's Far East and northern Russia, said building such vessels would not be entirely new to Russian dockyards.

Dat houdt in dat de schepen in Moermansk en Vladivostok gebouwd zullen worden.

[andré herc]

Russian shipbuilders say ready to construct Mistral class ships

Russian shipyards are ready to build Mistral class helicopter carriers whenever they receive orders from the military, industry officials said on Monday.

Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said earlier on Monday that Russia had reached the final stage of pre-contract talks with France, Spain and the Netherlands on the purchase of four of the French warships.

According to the minister, one vessel will be bought outright and the other three will be built under license with the participation of Russian shipbuilders. The full construction of the fourth vessel would take place in Russia.

"We are ready if the Defense Ministry gives us an order to build these ships," said Dmitry Morochenko, a spokesman for the United Industrial Corporation, which owns several shipyards and tool-making plants in northern Russia, the heartland of the country's shipbuilding sector.

The United Shipbuilding Corporation, which owns shipbuilding assets in Russia's Far East and northern Russia, said building such vessels would not be entirely new to Russian dockyards.

"Russia has experience in the construction of similar ships during the Soviet era, for example the Ivan Rogov class military transport ships, so we do not see any problems in fulfilling this contract," spokesman Igor Ryabov said.

Russia built three Ivan Rogov class amphibious transport ships during the Soviet era. One of them, the Mitrofan Moskalenko, is still in service with the Russian Navy but has been put on a Defense Ministry list of assets for sale.

A Ivan Rogov class ship can carry a reinforced naval infantry battalion landing team with all its combat vehicles, plus 10 PT-76 light amphibious tanks. Its flight deck can accommodate four Ka-27 or Ka-29 naval helicopters.

MOSCOW, May 24 (RIA Novosti)

[andré herc]

Russia to buy French warship by yearend - federal agency

13:3621/04/2010

Russia will sign an agreement with France on the purchase of a Mistral-class helicopter carrier by yearend, the head of the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation said on Wednesday.

Russia has negotiated the purchase of at least one Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, worth 400-500 million euros (around $540-$675 million) and plans to build three more vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

France insists on selling two vessels and building another two in Russia.

"The agreement on the purchase of a Mistral-class ship is due to be signed by yearend," Mikhail Dmitriev said, adding that the French side is more optimistic and believes that a contract could be ready for signing as early as September.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 armored vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 personnel.

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase, and some believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

en.rian.ru
MOSCOW, April 21 (RIA Novosti)

[hudinie]

dat weet ik, het zal wel gaan om het schip, helemaal kaal en de russen zullen het zelf wel uitrusten met radar en bewapening

[HermanB]

Er wordt gesproken over een kostprijs van 600 tot 750 miljoen dollar ongeveer neem het midden 500 miljoen euries, lijkt me wel een kooptje voor wat je ervoor krijgt, ik zou zeggen weg met de LPD'S en doe er maar twee van.....

Neem daar maar het dubbele van als je het volledig hebt uitgerust met wapens, radar en andere opties.

[hudinie]

Er wordt gesproken over een kostprijs van 600 tot 750 miljoen dollar ongeveer neem het midden 500 miljoen euries, lijkt me wel een kooptje voor wat je ervoor krijgt, ik zou zeggen weg met de LPD'S en doe er maar twee van.....

[Elzenga]

De meeste reacties van de buurlanden doe ik af als valse sentimenten (om zo vooral de eigen belangen te dienen in het Westen). Sorry, maar als Rusland kwaad wil kunnen ze dat nu ook al lang uitvoeren met de middelen die ze nu al hebben. En of men er nu 40 minuten of 26 uur over doet, als de Georgische president weer een militair avontuur start zal ook zonder een Mistral-klasse schip Rusland wederom reageren en het Georgische avontuur keihard afstraffen. Verder kan Rusland als het dat wil de capaciteit van een Mistral-klasse schip ook zelf wel realiseren. Alleen kost dit veel meer geld en veel meer tijd. En hoopt men juist door deze aanschaf sneller een grote stap vooruit te maken en ook de eigen industrie te revitaliseren. Door waarschijnlijk net als de Chinezen het aangekochte schip goed te bestuderen of mogelijk zelf na te bouwen (al dan niet met Franse betrokkenheid). 

[Lex]

Russia-France arms deal raises concerns

A potential deal that would see France selling advanced military technology to Russia has been causing concern among former Soviet states.

Moscow is said to be getting closer to buying from the French a Mistral-class assault warship - capable of transporting and deploying up to 16 helicopters, 13 battle tanks and 450 troops - costing between $600m (£368m) and $750m.

But critics of the potential deal in nations neighbouring Russia - such as Ukraine, Georgia and the Baltic states - say it would dramatically increase the military threat from Russia, increasing tensions in some already difficult relations.

Nika Laliashvili, of the Georgian parliament's defence committee, has said that Georgia "strongly opposes" the sale.

Should Paris decide to go ahead with the sale, France would become the first Nato member to have chosen to sell advanced military technology to Moscow.

'Serious danger'

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin discussed the potential deal during a recent official visit to Paris.

"We are buyers, you are sellers," he told his hosts.

"Whoever we buy it from, we will reserve the right to use it where and when we consider necessary."

And Russian generals have said that, had they had such a warship during the August 2008 conflict with Georgia, they would have been able to reach its shores within 40 minutes - rather than the 26 hours the country's navy took after setting off from their base in the Ukrainian Crimean port of Sevastopol.

But Mr Laliashvili said the deal would pose a "serious danger" to Georgia.

And his comments have been echoed by Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet.

"Adding new military technology to the Black Sea... [would] not be a good idea," said Mr Paet.

Concerns have also been raised in France itself.

"If such a decision is made, we need to understand the long-term consequences it will have," Francoise Thom, an expert on the former Soviet Union at Sorbonne University in Paris, told the BBC's Ukrainian Service.

"It's obvious that such weaponry would allow Russia to mount aggression against its neighbours," she added.

"It looks like France is giving Russia a green light for new imperialistic wars."

Starved of funds

Meanwhile, Andre Glucksmann, a leading French writer and philosopher, said the deal raised the risk not only of attack, but also of blackmail by Russia.

"The countries of the Black Sea, Caspian and Baltic Sea regions are nervous," he said.

"Poland and the Baltic States should state their objections publicly, and Brussels should intervene to stop such a deal."

Retired Russian naval officers acknowledge that the Russian navy is in a very poor state.


The shipyard, which produced the majority of Soviet aircraft carriers and missile cruisers, is not even Russian; it is in Mykolayiv, in southern Ukraine.

What remains of the Russian navy is estimated to be 20 times smaller than that of the US.

Yet Russian manufacturers themselves oppose the potential purchase from France - suggesting Moscow would do better to invest the money in reinvigorating Russia's own military industrial complex, which they say has been starved of funds.

Ukrainian Rear Adm Serhiy Blyznyukov, an adviser to the Ukrainian defence minister, said it was not clear whether Russia would deploy a Mistral-class warship to the Black Sea.

The base at Sevastopol, he said, is lacking the required infrastructure - meaning Russia would have to station the warship at the base of its Northern or Pacific Fleets.

But he acknowledged that in the longer term Russia could upgrade and modernise its facilities in Sevastopol.

Another solution for Russia, he said, would be the creation of a new naval base at the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiysk, where Ukraine hopes the current Black Sea fleet will be based after Russia's lease in Crimea expires in 2017.

The Russian Defence Ministry said it was "continuing discussions" over whether to purchase a French warship. A decision is expected by the end of 2009.

Story from BBC NEWS:
Published: 2009/12/13 00:54:04 GMT

[Lex]

Retired admiral says Russia losing its navy

MOSCOW — Russia's once-mighty navy faces further dramatic decline after 2015, when most Soviet-built ships will have to be mothballed, a retired admiral was quoted as saying Friday.
The warning follows comments by Russian officials they were planning to buy a French amphibious assault warship able to carry at least a dozen helicopters or to land forces.
Russia currently has no big ship with the power to anchor off coast and deploy troops onto land. With the likely decommissioning of other aging warships, distant deployments would be impossible, Retired Adm. Vyacheslav Popov said in remarks carried by RIA Novosti news agency.
"If things remain as they are, we will have to mothball most ocean warships by 2015," Popov was quoted as saying. "That will sharply reduce the navy's capability," which he said was now five to six times less than Britain's or France's, and 20-30 times smaller than the U.S. Navy's.
Popov and other retired military officers have described the Russian navy as being in a pitiful state — a sharp contrast to the Kremlin's attempts to flex military muscle abroad.
Russia has sent warships to patrol pirate-infested waters off Somalia, and in 2008 dispatched a navy squadron to the Caribbean for joint maneuvers with the Venezuelan navy and for several port calls.
But Popov, a former Northern Fleet chief who is now a member of parliament's upper house, warned that the navy would only be capable of acting near Russian shores after 2015.
Only a handful of big surface ships, such as missile cruisers and destroyers, remain seaworthy, after Russia failed to commission new ships and properly maintain Soviet-built ones amid the post-Soviet economic meltdown in the 1990s. The flow of petrodollars in the 2000s failed to reverse the navy's fortunes.
Popov said that, despite increased military budgets, the government has failed to allocate money for building new warships or even maintaining the old ones.
In the last decade, the navy had commissioned only one relatively small surface warship, he said. Its single Soviet-built aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, is much smaller than U.S. aircraft carriers and has been plagued by mechanical problems and accidents.
Russia has been in talks with France about a possible purchase of a Mistral-class assault ship and building several others under license — a deal military leaders say will allow Russia to import new Western technologies and modernize its industries.
Russia's struggling shipbuilders oppose the purchase, arguing that instead of buying a French warship the government should invest in domestic production. A shipyard in Severodvinsk has tried for years to fulfill an order to modernize a Soviet-built aircraft carrier for India and sought to swell a contract price.

The Associated Press
Posted : Saturday Nov 28, 2009 8:14:02 EST

[Lex]

Potential Sale of French Warship to Russia Raises Concerns for Neighboring Countries

France is negotiating to sell a high-tech warship to Russia, which would mark the first time that a NATO nation — and a founding member at that — sold arms to the country since the fall of the Soviet Union, which the treaty organization was created to oppose.
The Russians are anxiously looking to buy one of France's Mistral class helicopter carriers, a rapid-deployment attack ship that some fear could be used against countries like Georgia and Ukraine.
"I confirm that we are currently examining an official request from the Russian government for the purchase of a ship of this class," French Prime Minister Francois Fillon said Friday at news conference following a meeting with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.
The possible deal has Georgian officials concerned, as the 21,300-ton amphibious assault ship can also carry personnel, armored cars and tanks thousands of miles and would help modernize Russian naval equipment exposed as outdated in its war with Georgia last year, Reuters reported.
"We strongly oppose the sale of such ship to Russia," Nika Laliashvili of the Georgian parliament's defense affairs committee told The Associated Press. "It poses a serious danger to Georgia."
Since the war, Russia has declared the Georgian territory of Abkhazia an independent nation and sent thousands of troops there. Abkhazia has a coastline along the Black Sea that is next to Russia's coast.
Asked if Russia would used the ship against Georgia, Putin said only that it would use warships where needed, Reuters reported.
Two senior U.S. officials told Fox News the potential sale is not very alarming.
"We would expect France keep its NATO allies in close consultation concerning any potential sale," but overall "this ship wouldn't give the Russians more of an advantage", one official said.
Other NATO members expressed more concern at France's openness to selling Russia weaponry that could be used against NATO forces or allies.
"If we look at the level of different tensions, for example, on the Black Sea, I don't think that theoretically, at least, it is good idea to add some military equipment or military technologies for the Black Sea," Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet said at a news conference.
"We have sent a request to the French foreign ministry to clarify the situation — what's the purpose? What's the ammunition?" Lithuanian foreign minister Vygaudas Usackas said.
Russian shipbuilders have also opposed the Mistral deal, saying the government should invest in domestic production instead.
Russia has only one Soviet-built aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, which is much smaller than the U.S. aircraft carriers and has been plagued by mechanical problems and accidents.
The country's once-mighty navy faces further dramatic decline after 2015, when most Soviet-built ships will have to be mothballed, a retired admiral was quoted as saying Friday.
The Navy chief, Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky, has said a ship like Mistral would have allowed the Russian navy to mount a much more efficient operation in the Black Sea during the Russia-Georgia war. He said the French ship would take just 40 minutes to do the job that the Russian Black Sea Fleet vessels did in 26 hours, apparently referring to amphibious landing operations.
But Navy officials have also argued that producing Mistral-class ships in Russia, rather than buying them from other countries, would help modernize Russia's aging industries.
Despite concerns over the negotiations, Fillon said "France is open to cooperation with Russia, including in defense," adding that it makes no sense to discuss including Russia in a joint European economy then fall back on "outdated reflexes," Reuters reported.
The Mistral, estimated to cost roughly $450 million to $500 million, could become Russia's biggest international arms purchase.
Putin said Russia had not made a final decision on the deal.

Fox News, Friday , November 27, 2009

[Lex]

France, Russia Move Closer to Mistral Deal

MOSCOW - France will send a warship to Russia in November in the run up to an unprecedented deal to sell it a helicopter carrier, a top defense ministry official said Oct. 31, RIA Novosti reported.
"In November, the Mistral helicopter carrier will arrive on a visit to St. Petersburg," the first deputy chief of the Navy general staff, Oleg Burtsev, told the news agency.
Burtsev also confirmed that Russia was planning to purchase one of the Mistral warships and to construct a further four warships under license.
"We plan to buy one Mistral-class ship in France, and with technical support from the French to build four helicopter carriers of this class under license," Burtsev told the news agency.
Burtsev said that he attended talks on the warship deal in France two weeks ago and that France agreed to Russia's proposal to buy the ship, RIA Novosti reported.
The Mistral warship can carry 16 heavy helicopters, landing-craft and troops and can also act as a command and control vessel.
Burtsev did not name a price, but the ship is set to cost up to 500 million euros ($740 million) RIA Novosti reported Saturday, citing French media.
The Russian armed forces chief of staff, Gen. Nikolai Makarov, said in August that Moscow planned to buy a Mistral in an unprecedented deal that experts said reflected Kremlin efforts to accelerate military modernization.
The naval commander-in-chief Vladimir Vysotsky raised questions over the deal in September when he said that Russia might look to Spain or the Netherlands to buy the ship-building technology.
Since World War II, Russia has insisted on producing all military hardware for its own use and export, but it has failed to keep up with the West.
In recent years, Russia has talked a lot about modernizing its armed forces, which still rely heavily on Soviet-era equipment, and steadily increased its procurement budgets during Vladimir Putin's presidency.
The Mistral-class warships would be based at Russia's northern and Pacific fleets but might also be used against Somalian pirates, Burtsev said.
"The ships are being acquired for troop-carrying, peace-keeping and rescue operations. What's more, this ship can be effectively used for fighting pirates, including those off the coast of Somalia," Burtsev told RIA Novosti.
Russia is one of several countries to have sent naval ships to the coast of Somalia to try to combat the rising tide of attacks on vessels passing through the strategic Gulf of Aden.
In the most recent attack, Somali pirates seized a Thai fishing trawler with a crew including 23 Russian sailors, the Russian foreign ministry said Oct. 30.

AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 31 Oct 2009 11:35

[Elzenga]

"The foundations for cooperation on a program of this size have been laid on several fronts over the last few years. France's Thales already provides components for Russia's front line military equipment, from tank gunnery sights to avionics and targeting pods for Russian-built fighters. Recent memoranda of understanding for cooperation in naval R&D (Thales) and defense R&D more generally (EADS) build on the 2006 MoU between DCN and the Russian government to develop technical, industrial and commercial co-operations between the Mistral's builder and Russia's naval defence industry."
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Russia-to-Order-French-Mistral-LHDs-05749/