Internationale ontwikkelingen op onderzeebootgebied.

[Huzaar1]

Waarom zou een Orka ontwerp dat alleen op papier bestaat en waar nog geen contract voor getekend is meer kans hebben dan een produkt dat men van de plank kan kopen? De Canadezen kopen meestal van de plank.

Orka is van de plank, tenslotte

Idd denk ik ook
Maakt denk ik ook meer kans dan de type212CD

.
Zou stomste zet van Canada ooit zijn zich te committeren aan een beperkt ontwerp terwijl er een hele wereld duikboot producenten bestaat die ze veel meer kan bieden.

[Kornet43]

Idd denk ik ook
Maakt denk ik ook meer kans dan de type212CD

Waarom zou een Orka ontwerp dat alleen op papier bestaat en waar nog geen contract voor getekend is meer kans hebben dan een produkt dat men van de plank kan kopen? De Canadezen kopen meestal van de plank.

[Harald]

Je kan er vanuit gaan dat Frankrijk (eventueel met Nederland samen) een vergelijkbaar bod doet voor Canada met de Orca klasse als basis.

Idd denk ik ook
Maakt denk ik ook meer kans dan de type212CD

[Parera]

Je kan er vanuit gaan dat Frankrijk (eventueel met Nederland samen) een vergelijkbaar bod doet voor Canada met de Orca klasse als basis.

[Harald]

Canada weighing international 'collaboration' on future subs

Canadian Defence Minister Bill Blair said his German counterpart approached him about joining the German-Norwegian submarine package.

Canada is weighing "collaboration" from foreign partners in a bid to figure out a way forward on replacing its fleet of aging Victoria-class submarines, even as critics say the Trudeau government is not doing enough to fast-track the procurement.

There are "real opportunities for greater collaboration with others on this. And so we're pursuing those discussions as well. I'm pretty confident we will get to a determination of our path forward on underwater surveillance submarines," said Bill Blair, Canada's Minister of National Defence, speaking in Washington on Monday.

"We need to be able to be, to the extent possible, connected and interoperable with allies. We all have a shared mission, those of us who are close and aligned, and finding the best way for us collectively to achieve that mission is really in our interest."

Interestingly, Blair told the event hosted by the Defense Writers Group that he has received reach out about joining the German-Norwegian Thyssenkrupp-made 212CD class submarine package.

"I met last week with the German defense minister, and he brought to me a letter signed by both him and our Norwegian counterpart — they are interested in working collaboratively with Canada on a number of different options across a broad range of defense capabilities, but also included underwater surveillance," Blair said. "Frankly, I'm pleased and we're hearing from many others as well."

Canada operates four Victoria-class submarines, whose design dates back to the late 1980s; the youngest of the subs entered service in 2003. However, Ottawa has struggled to regularly deploy the subs over the history of their use. One estimate says the fleet has another 15-20 years of life, and given the lengthy timelines for submarine production, getting under contract sooner rather than later seems imperative.

The pool of potential contenders are deep: shipbuilders from Japan, South Korea, Germany, Sweden and the United States will likely be considered as the ministry does its work.

When Canada's recent Defence Policy Update (DPU) was released, critics quickly jumped on the fact that rather than including specifics about what a new submarine fleet might look like, the paper instead said that, "We will explore options for renewing and expanding our submarine fleet" in the future. Blair today said he "regrets" using the term "explore," given the criticism that it  "is not a very clear and powerful word.

"It's certainly not my intention to be wishy washy. What I've tried to articulate very, very clearly and strongly in the document is, we know we have to replace our submarine fleet, and we're going to do that," Blair said. "There's some work to do."

Without being able to secure actual funding for the submarines in the DPU, the goal was to signal to industry and international partners that Canada is in the information gathering stage, Blair said. He also emphasized that whenever the submarines are bought, it will help push Canada over the NATO target of 2 percent GDP spending on defense. Last month, Canada pledged to increase defense spending by $5.9 over the next five years, a sum that still falls short of the alliance goal.

"We've got some work to do in both determining what our requirements are, what choices are available within the market, and we're beginning those processes right away" shared Blair. "And then once we've done that work, I'll be in a much stronger position to go back to my own government saying, we now have a very clear path to this new capability acquisition, and then seek the funding for it."

Replacing the subs "is necessary. It is, I might suggest, inevitable," he said. "One of things we're hearing from our armed forces, but also hearing from industry, they need the clarity and certainty of direction, and then commitment. And so I hope in the DPU, I provided them with direction. And I'm working hard on getting the commitment."

That will be welcome news from industry, which also found the language in the DPU to be underwhelming.

Speaking to a group of reporters and analysts in Stockholm on Monday, Simon Carroll, President of Saab Canada, said of the language, "I don't personally think that goes strong enough, that that wording is strong enough for future submarines in Canada. I think we need to advance the 'explore' status and put some money to it or put some numbers to it at the moment. So I think that was for me a little disappointing."

Continued Carroll, "Others will say it's given us policy coverage. And I get that. I just think we need to get moving forward because I think putting it in the same categorization as a number of the other 'explore' capabilities that Canada wants to look at in the future doesn't say we're going to buy submarines in the future, even though we know full well that the Victoria class submarines are on their way out." (Breaking Defense, like other outlets, accepted travel accommodations from Saab for this trip.)

While noting that the work is underway, Blair was careful not to put any sort of hard timeline on when a final decision could be made on moving forward with a submarine buy.

"You'll forgive me, I can't get too far ahead or presenting anything to government," he said. But, "I have a sense of urgency around this."

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/05/canada-weighing-international-collaboration-on-future-subs/

[Harald]

https://www.hartpunkt.de/deutschland-und-norwegen-schlagen-kanada-maritime-partnerschaft-vor/

Duitsland en Noorwegen stellen een maritiem partnerschap met Canada voor

Tijdens zijn bezoek aan Ottawa gisteren deed de federale minister van Defensie Pistorius het voorstel aan zijn Canadese collega Bill Blair voor een "trilateraal strategisch maritiem partnerschap" waaraan ook Noorwegen zou deelnemen. Zoals Pistorius zei in een gezamenlijke persverklaring na de gesprekken met Blair, had hij een brief overhandigd met de voorstellen ondertekend door zijn Noorse collega en hemzelf. Volgens Pistoris zou een dergelijk maritiem partnerschap zich moeten richten op het veiligstellen van maritieme communicatielijnen in de noordelijke Atlantische Oceaan en het Noordpoolgebied.

Hij had eerder in zijn verklaring benadrukt dat de Duitse samenwerking met Canada van strategisch belang is, "of het nu te land, op zee of onder water is."

Na de gesprekken kondigde Blair aan dat hij in totaal 76 miljoen Canadese dollar zou investeren in de kortetermijnaankoop van munitie voor het Iris-T luchtverdedigingssysteem, dat de komende weken aan Oekraïne zal worden geleverd. Canada neemt deel aan een initiatief onder leiding van Berlijn. Uit de verklaringen van de twee ministers bleek niet duidelijk of verdere specifieke bewapeningsprojecten werden besproken.

Zoals bekend kopen Noorwegen en Duitsland identieke CD-onderzeeërs van de klasse 212 aan en onderzoekt Noorwegen blijkbaar ook samen met de Duitse marine de mogelijke aanschaf van fregatten. Terwijl Canada het bouwcontract voor nieuwe fregatten al heeft gegund, wil het land de komende jaren zijn verouderende onderzeebootvloot vernieuwen. De Duitse scheepswerf thyssenkrupp Marine Systems wordt als mogelijke leverancier beschouwd, waarschijnlijk ook met het U212CD-ontwerp. Als Canada geïnteresseerd is in een maritiem partnerschap, zou wapensamenwerking op onderzeeërs ook een optie zijn. Dit zou de interoperabiliteit vergroten en de kosten voor alle partners verlagen door schaalvoordelen.

Een paar weken geleden bracht de Canadese premier Justin Trudeau echter de mogelijkheid ter sprake om kernonderzeeërs aan te schaffen , net zoals Australië doet in het kader van AUKUS. Zijn minister van Defensie gaf gisteren in een persverklaring met Pistorius toe dat de kosten voor nieuwe onderzeeërs nog niet in de begroting waren verwerkt. Ze werken er echter hard aan om deze, evenals de verwachte kosten voor efficiënte raket- en luchtverdediging, op te vangen. Als deze projecten erbij betrokken zouden worden, schat Blair dat de Canadese defensie-uitgaven ruim 2 procent van het bruto binnenlands product zouden bedragen.

[Harald]

Portugal Deploys Submarine NRP Arpão To The North Atlantic ( zooo das een lang reis naar de North, wel anders dan de warme wateren bij Portugal)

The Danish Navy announced that the Portuguese Navy deployed the Tridente-class attack submarine NRP Arpão in the North Atlantic.

Danish Navy press release

The Arctic Command welcomes a Portuguese submarine in Nuuk these days. The Portuguese navy, Marinha Portuguesa, has sent the submarine ARPÃO to Nuuk, where it will remain in port for a few days before heading north together with the inspection vessel EJNAR MIKKELSEN.

The plan is for the submarine to make a voyage under the ice off Greenland, and EJNAR MIKKELSEN will support the submarine and be an escort ship. It provides good training for the crew of the EJNAR MIKKELSEN, who get the opportunity to train with and act as support for a submarine in Arctic waters.

The diesel-electric submarine ARPÃO will also sail in Baffin Bay between Canada and Greenland, and after sailing under the ice and another short stay in Nuuk, the submarine will sail towards Halifax.

For the citizens of Nuuk, there will be an opportunity to come and see the submarine and get on board on Friday. Follow the group Nuuk Citizen Info, where we announce the time and place.

Author's Note
The Portuguese Navy (Marinha Portuguesa) has deployed one of its two Tridente-class diesel-electric submarine (Type 214) to the North Atlantic region. The deployment will reportedly last until mid-May.

The Arpão was developed by the German company HDW, launched in 2010 and commissioned to the Portuguese Navy in 2011. It is 68 meters long and has a displacement of 2,020 tons, with a crew of 35. It is capable of conducting vigilance, patrol and reconnaissance missions, and equipped with advanced sonar and communications systems.

Aside from the two existing Tridente-class boats, the Chief of the Navy, Admiral Henrique Gouveia e Melo, has expressed on several occasions the need for Portugal to acquire at least two additional units over the following years: "We are in a crucial area for logistical movements between the Americas and Europe and this is crucial for NATO's logistical movement [...] If we Portuguese, who have the Azores, don't take an active part in protecting these maritime lines of communication, be they for data, cargo transport or people, we are somehow diminishing our strategic value within the coalition itself."

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/04/portugal-deploys-submarine-nrp-arpao-to-the-north-atlantic/

[Harald]

AUKUS Underwater Capability Developments Target Torpedo-Tube UUV System

Details have been set out for four workstrands being developed, within Pillar 2 of the AUKUS trilateral strategic defence and security partnership, to generate new underwater battlespace capability for the Australian, UK, and US navies. One new capability priority is capacity to launch and recover uncrewed underwater vehicles (UUVs) from submarine torpedo tubes.


AUKUS Pillar 1 aims to deliver an SSN for the Australian and UK navies. AUKUS Pillar 2 aims to deliver underwater capabilities including a torpedo-tube launch-and-recovery system for UUVs that is designed to fit any submarine. Artist impression by L3Harris.

Australia, the UK, and the US formally announced the AUKUS accord in September 2021. Two focus areas have been declared to date, named Pillar 1 and Pillar 2. Pillar 1 encompasses development and delivery of a nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) for the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) and the UK Royal Navy (RN), using the SSN-AUKUS design being developed under the RN's lead. Pillar 2 focuses on developing a range of capabilities to further enhance combined interoperability between AUKUS members. Pillar 2's coverage continues to expand, and currently includes artificial intelligence (AI), cyber, electronic warfare, hypersonic, information-sharing, innovation, quantum, and underwater capabilities.

Speaking at the Undersea Defence Technology (UDT) exposition, held at London's ExCel exhibition centre in early April, the RN's Commodore Andy Perks – outgoing Deputy Director for Underwater Battlespace Capability in the RN's Develop Directorate – said that each of the nine capability areas is being developed under a separate working group.

Within the underwater battlespace working group, he added, four workstrands are currently underway.

First is the development of an interchangeable UUV, to be launched and recovered from a submarine torpedo tube – what is known as a TTL&R capability.

Cdre Perks explained that work is based around the Leidos/L3Harris Iver4 autonomous underwater vehicle (AUV). Within the TTL&R capability development process, Cdre Perks underlined the emphasis on the recovery element. However, while this element is technologically challenging, he stressed that using a UUV is a good way to deploy a lot of capability from a submarine.

Rear Admiral James Parkin – the RN's Director Develop – told the UDT conference in his keynote address that the TTL&R capability, which will be delivered for the RN under Project Scylla, can be fitted to any submarine and removes a boat's need to surface to recover a vehicle.

"It gives an SSN its own offboard system," said Rear Adm Parkin.

The submarine will be able to deploy a UUV, and then adapt how it uses the UUV, without having to involve another platform, he added.

Dan Packer – AUKUS Director for the USN's Commander Submarine Force, and a retired USN submarine commanding officer – underlined the operational importance of the UUV TTL&R system. With submarines looking to bring increased capability into a more challenging operational environment featuring shallower, contested waters, a TTL&R UUV will help preserve a submarine's ordnance capacity, he said.

Cdre Perks added that the USN has already conducted TTL&R sea trials, with the RN set to follow suit.

In July 2023, L3Harris demonstrated the TTL&R capability, accomplishing what the company said in a statement was "a fully autonomous launch and recovery of an AUV from an underway submarine", with the test demonstrating the development and integration of a homing and docking solution designed to enable the TTL&R process.

Once the TTL&R capability has been worked through, the aim is to be at a mature point in programme development where companies can be invited to propose payload ideas, said Cdre Perks. While the UUV is key to unlocking interchangeability, the payload is more critical than the UUV itself, he stressed.

The second underwater workstrand is the concept of using AI and machine learning (ML) to augment underwater acoustic data processing. Here, testing has already been conducted using a USN P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft (MPA). A cloud-based approach was set up to enable AI/ML analysts to use data algorithms to process data; the P-8A then drew on the information output.

Third, for critical underwater infrastructure (CUI) security, the AUKUS partners are looking at commonality in operations and processes, and improving understanding of each other's capabilities. In November 2023, the three navies conducted the Integrated Battle Problem 23.3 exercise, out of the RAN's Fleet Base East naval station, Garden Island, Sydney: AUVs were used in the exercise to monitor CUI, including seabed pipelines and cables.

Finally, the AUKUS partners are looking at interchangeability in underwater self-defence capability, including torpedoes, countermeasures, and other effectors.

While delivery of an SSN capability for the RAN and RN under AUKUS Pillar 1 is a longer-term programme, AUKUS Pillar 2 is set to meet the requirement to provide more tangible, targeted outputs in the nearer term to begin tackling new challenges to the global order that are unfolding almost daily, said Cdre Perks.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/04/aukus-underwater-capability-developments-target-torpedo-tube-uuv-system/

[Harald]

Blue water submarines: capabilities and requirements

Despite the ever-increasing number of navies harbouring 'blue water' naval ambitions, the total of those with the means to field this capability underwater is limited. The nuclear-powered submarine's combination of speed and endurance continues to provide an unrivalled capacity to undertake long-range, oceanic deployment. However, few nations have either the technological base or financial resources to acquire such vessels. As a result, the acquisition of long-range diesel-electric boats remains the default option for many of these fleets. This article examines the major programmes that are currently underway for both submarine types.

.../...

https://euro-sd.com/2024/04/articles/37467/blue-water-submarines-capabilities-and-requirements/

[Harald]

https://marineschepen.nl/nieuws/Indonesie-kiest-naval-group-als-bouwer-nieuwe-onderzeeboten-040424.html

Indonesië tekent contract met Naval Group voor nieuwe onderzeeboten

De Indonesische scheepswerf PT PAL mag twee onderzeeboten bouwen voor de Indonesische marine. Als model werd de nieuwste Scorpène gekozen; de Scorpène Evolved. Daarmee wordt Indonesië de vijfde klant met Scorpène-onderzeeboten, een onderzeeboot die oorspronkelijk ontworpen werd door het Franse Naval Group en het Spaanse Navantia. Voor de Indonesische onderzeeboten zal Naval Group alle technologie en know-how doorspelen aan PT PAL, dat de volledige productie in handen neemt.

[Huzaar1]

    of is dat een 1 april grap van de USNavy ?   

Nee, maar het is toch voor iedereen bekend dat ze al jaren dingen in gebruik hebben die worden ontkent

    of is dat een 1 april grap van de USNavy ?   

Nee, gewoon typische stratcom omtrent moeilijke/experimentele/geheime toepassingen in wapensystemen.

Is ook logisch, maar geloof er niks van dat als een concept al nu meer dan 40 jaar tot in de puntjes bekend is, het nu de eerste toepassing zou zijn.

[Harald]

Jaja, we worden voor de gek gehouden. 

    of is dat een 1 april grap van de USNavy ?   

[Master Mack]

Caterpillar drive.. Al een ding sinds de jaren 80.

Wil je meer weten: https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=red-october

Je was me net voor

[Huzaar1]

Jaja, we worden voor de gek gehouden. 

Caterpillar drive.. Al een ding sinds de jaren 80.

Wil je meer weten: https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=red-october

[Harald]

U.S. Navy Submarine First In World Fitted With Silent Caterpillar Drive

Submarines use stealth to dominate the seas, presenting an illusive yet deadly threat. Now U.S. Navy submarines will take stealth to a new level. American submarines will now be fitted with magnetohydrodynamic drive.

American submarines will further extend their advantage in the undersea domain. In the first of a kind, the U.S. Navy has fitted a new form of propulsion, magnetohydrodynamic drive (MHD), to a Virginia class submarine. This promises to make the submarine virtually undetectable, the holy grail of naval warfare.

The Magnetohydrodynamic drive is being developed under the PUMP program by DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency), first reported in 2023. Water passing through it is accelerated by means of a magnetic field using superconducting magnets. This is often likened to the way a caterpillar crawls leading to the colloquial term 'caterpillar drive'.

The first boat to be fitted with the new propulsion will be the USS Montana (SSN 794). This Virginia Class attack submarine was commissioned into the U.S. Navy in June 2022. Although still a new boat, she has been brought in to Groton, Connecticut, for the modifications.

Quietest Submarine Propulsion Ever
It is likely to be particularly stealthy as there are no moving mechanical parts. This will make the submarine particularly difficult to detect using passive sonar which listens for noises emitted by the targeted submarine. Sonar operators searching for the USS Montana will likely hear noises which are indistinguishable from natural phenomenon, such as seismic activity.

Instead of a traditional propeller at the stern, the new propulsion will be entirely within the submarine's hull. According to British experts the only external clues are likely to be the water intake doors in the bow. These will resemble torpedo tube shutters but larger, approximately the diameter of a submarine launched ballistic missile. But mounted horizontally, which is unusual for those missiles.

 Home»News»U.S. Navy Submarine First In World Fitted With Silent Caterpillar Drive
Sea Air Space 2024
US Navy submarine USS Montana at sea
Click to Enlarge. The U.S. Navy submarine USS Montana (SSN-794) will be the first fitted with the highly stealthy 'Caterpillar Drive'. U.S. Navy Photo.
U.S. Navy Submarine First In World Fitted With Silent Caterpillar Drive
Submarines use stealth to dominate the seas, presenting an illusive yet deadly threat. Now U.S. Navy submarines will take stealth to a new level. American submarines will now be fitted with magnetohydrodynamic drive.
Naval News Staff  01 Apr 2024

American submarines will further extend their advantage in the undersea domain. In the first of a kind, the U.S. Navy has fitted a new form of propulsion, magnetohydrodynamic drive (MHD), to a Virginia class submarine. This promises to make the submarine virtually undetectable, the holy grail of naval warfare.

The Magnetohydrodynamic drive is being developed under the PUMP program by DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency), first reported in 2023. Water passing through it is accelerated by means of a magnetic field using superconducting magnets. This is often likened to the way a caterpillar crawls leading to the colloquial term 'caterpillar drive'.

The first boat to be fitted with the new propulsion will be the USS Montana (SSN 794). This Virginia Class attack submarine was commissioned into the U.S. Navy in June 2022. Although still a new boat, she has been brought in to Groton, Connecticut, for the modifications.

Quietest Submarine Propulsion Ever
It is likely to be particularly stealthy as there are no moving mechanical parts. This will make the submarine particularly difficult to detect using passive sonar which listens for noises emitted by the targeted submarine. Sonar operators searching for the USS Montana will likely hear noises which are indistinguishable from natural phenomenon, such as seismic activity.

Instead of a traditional propeller at the stern, the new propulsion will be entirely within the submarine's hull. According to British experts the only external clues are likely to be the water intake doors in the bow. These will resemble torpedo tube shutters but larger, approximately the diameter of a submarine launched ballistic missile. But mounted horizontally, which is unusual for those missiles.

It Is Time
The new propulsion may be fitted to more submarines if the trials are successful. These are likely to include new-build Virginia class attack submarines and the future 'SSN-X' type. It is unlikely to be fitted to the Columbia Class ballistic missile submarines (SSBN) however as this would likely constitute a first strike capability. There is no reason to make a nuclear deterrent submarine so stealthy if it is only intended for retaliatory strikes.

USS Montana is expected to undergo sea trials on the Penobscot River in Maine. This will make it more difficult for the Russian Navy to observe the tests.

The caterpillar drive propulsions is still in its infancy. Whether the Penobscot River will be the end of the story, or the beginning of a new chapter, remains to be seen. Either way, Montana will remain unseen.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2024/04/u-s-navy-submarine-first-in-world-fitted-with-silent-caterpillar-drive/