Internationale ontwikkelingen op onderzeebootgebied.

[Harald]

Naval Group valt af in strijd Canadese onderzeeboten
https://marineschepen.nl/nieuws/Naval-Group-valt-af-in-strijd-Canadese-onderzeeboten-270825.html

De Duitse werf TKMS is samen met het Zuid-Koreaanse Hanwha Ocean geselecteerd voor de laatste ronde in de strijd om Canadese onderzeeboten, dat maakte de Canadese regering gisteren bekend.
Naval Group, Navantia en Saab zijn afgevallen. Vooral het afvallen van het Franse Naval Group, dat voor Nederland de Orkaklasse gaat bouwen, is opvallend.

[Lynxian]

TKMS heeft ondertussen wel een jaloersmakende backlog aan orders voor subs.

[Harald]

6  stuks type 214 onderzeeboten voor India, nieuwe onderzeeboot opdracht voor TKMS

India chooses German Type 214 submarine over Spanish S-80 to counter Chinese and Pakistani fleets.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/navy-news/2025/india-chooses-german-type-214-submarine-over-spanish-s-80-to-counter-chinese-and-pakistani-fleets

According to information published by the Times of India on August 24, 2025, the Indian government has officially cleared Germany's Type 214 submarine as the winning design for its long-delayed Project 75 program. The approval allows state-owned Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) to begin contract negotiations with ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) for the construction of six advanced Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) submarines, in a deal worth over 70,000 crore rupees, or approximately $8.4 billion. This decision comes after more than six months of delay and firmly excludes Spain's competing S-80 design from further consideration.

[Harald]

Moment TKMS is ook bezig met de Dakar klasse.
https://www.twz.com/43951/our-first-look-at-israels-new-dakar-class-submarine-reveals-a-very-peculiar-feature

idd, volgens mij was er een proefvaart van een Israelische boot in Duitse wateren een paar weken terug, de eerste van 3 boten, de INS Drakon, van de Dakar Klasse.

de order portefeuille is ook gevuld met nieuwbouw van 2 stuks type 218SG voor Singapore en dan de Type 212CD voor Duitsland en Noorwegen, waar van er nu in opdracht gegeven zijn 6 voor Duitsland en 4 voor Noorwegen en beide landen hebben al aangegeven dat er een 2de batch/order komt voor 3 (Du) en 2 stuks (NO).
Tevens heeft TKMS de opdracht gekregen voor een upgrade voor de bestaande Duitse 212 type onderzeeboten.
Orders zijn er dus genoeg.

De eerste type 212CD voor Duitsland moet geleverd worden in 2031 en de 2de in 2034. De eerste Noorse 212CD moet geleverd worden in 2029, de 2de in 2030, de 3de in 2033 en de 4de in 2035. De eerste orders voor de Duitse en Noorse 212CD zijn in 2021 in opdrachtgegeven, dus doorlooptijd van de eerste boten in 8 tot 10 jaar.

Dus dat Canada zijn eerste in 2035 operationeel wil hebben is, lijkt mij, niet haalbaar.

[Ace1]

    maar ik vind dit type 212CD nu net geen echte long range onderzeeboot voor een zo groot land als Canada.
Inderdaad de Barracuda, wel een echte expeditionaire onderzeeboot, is nog geen echte "van de plank" aankoop. Deze wordt nu nog ontwikkeld en geengineerd door de Naval Group. Waarschijnlijk is de eerste leveringen van de NL boten, al te laat voor Canada. Canada wil zijn eerste boten in 2035 operationeel hebben, contract zou in 2028 getekend moeten worden, das wel heel erg ambitieus moet ik zeggen. 

Moment TKMS is ook bezig met de Dakar klasse.

https://www.twz.com/43951/our-first-look-at-israels-new-dakar-class-submarine-reveals-a-very-peculiar-feature

[Harald]

Duits & een op Duits ontwerp gebaseerde boten.
Ik denk wel dat dit een te verwachte keuze is geweest, het had voor Nederland en Frankrijk interessant geweest om de barracuda familie verder uit te breiden maar helaas.

Ik verwacht dat het de Duitsers (en Noren) gaan worden met de Type 212CD. Dit zou passen in een deal waarin de Duitsers het Canadese CMS aanschaffen voor hun F-127's en de Canadezen dan weer het ontwerp/ boten van de Type 212CD klasse.

Ja, ze gaan voor zekerheid. Met de huidige Victoria (ex-Upholder) klasse geven ze genoeg kopzorgen.

     maar ik vind dit type 212CD nu net geen echte long range onderzeeboot voor een zo groot land als Canada.
Inderdaad de Barracuda, wel een echte expeditionaire onderzeeboot, is nog geen echte "van de plank" aankoop. Deze wordt nu nog ontwikkeld en geengineerd door de Naval Group. Waarschijnlijk is de eerste leveringen van de NL boten, al te laat voor Canada. Canada wil zijn eerste boten in 2035 operationeel hebben, contract zou in 2028 getekend moeten worden, das wel heel erg ambitieus moet ik zeggen. 

[Parera]

wat !!!    
Duitsland en Zuid Korea !

Duits & een op Duits ontwerp gebaseerde boten.
Ik denk wel dat dit een te verwachte keuze is geweest, het had voor Nederland en Frankrijk interessant geweest om de barracuda familie verder uit te breiden maar helaas.

Ik verwacht dat het de Duitsers (en Noren) gaan worden met de Type 212CD. Dit zou passen in een deal waarin de Duitsers het Canadese CMS aanschaffen voor hun F-127's en de Canadezen dan weer het ontwerp/ boten van de Type 212CD klasse.

Was te verwachten, Canada wil van de plank kopen.

Ja, ze gaan voor zekerheid. Met de huidige Victoria (ex-Upholder) klasse geven ze genoeg kopzorgen.

[Kornet43]

wat !!!    
Duitsland en Zuid Korea !

Canada down selects two shipbuilders for future Canadian Patrol Submarine Project

The Government of Canada has announced that it has shortlisted two major shipbuilders to continue the procurement process for Canada's future patrol submarine project (CPSP), which will replace the current fleet of Victoria-class submarines.

Government of Canada press release

Through Canada's defence policy, Our North, Strong and Free, the Government of Canada is providing members of the Royal Canadian Navy with the equipment they need to keep Canadians safe and maintain current and future operational readiness. Canada has the longest coastline in the world, and it is essential that the Royal Canadian Navy be equipped with superior underwater surveillance capability to protect our country's security and Arctic sovereignty.

The Royal Canadian Navy requires a new submarine fleet that will be deployable in the Arctic with extended range and endurance that will provide stealth, persistence and lethality as key capabilities. The future Canadian Patrol Submarine will employ a unique combination of these attributes to ensure that Canada can detect, track, deter and, if necessary, defeat adversaries in all 3 of Canada's oceans. It will enable the Government of Canada to contribute to international security through deployments alongside allies and partners, while creating opportunities to strengthen Canada's defence and marine sectors.

Today, the Honourable Joël Lightbound, Minister of Government Transformation, Public Works and Procurement, and the Honourable Stephen Fuhr, Secretary of State (Defence Procurement), announced that the Government of Canada has identified German company Thyssen Krupp Marine Systems (TKMS) and Korean company Hanwha Ocean Co., Ltd. (Hanwha) as the 2 qualified suppliers for the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP).

This decision was informed by a thorough assessment of Canada's requirements for the CPSP, including construction and delivery timelines for the new submarine fleet. Canada also engaged with other governments and militaries to exchange lessons learned and to gain insights into their respective submarine acquisitions, infrastructure and sustainment programs.

As the current global environment continues to evolve, the CPSP is an opportunity to diversify Canada's defence partnerships and collaborate with allies and partners, while creating long-term opportunities for Canada's marine and defence industries. The identification of qualified suppliers is a critical milestone for the CPSP. It is a positive signal that the Government of Canada is taking the necessary steps to provide members of the Royal Canadian Navy with the equipment they need, and that it is prepared to move quickly and decisively to ensure delivery of the first Canadian Patrol Submarine no later than 2035.

As part of the next steps, Canada will conduct in-depth engagements with the 2 qualified suppliers to continue to advance the procurement process.

The Government of Canada remains committed to engaging Canadian industry and creating high-paying jobs at home through the CPSP. As such, Canada intends to leverage work on the submarines to generate economic benefits for Canada's marine and defence industry throughout the fleet's operational life.

"Diversifying our trade partnerships is crucial to ensuring Canada meets the moment as global circumstances evolve. The Canadian Patrol Submarine Project, in collaboration with TKMS and Hanwha as the 2 qualified suppliers, is an opportunity to work with allies and strengthen our defence industrial capacity. This is a critical step toward equipping the Royal Canadian Navy with next-generation capabilities our Navy needs to protect our sovereignty and support our allies."
The Honourable Joël Lightbound
Minister of Government Transformation, Public Works and Procurement

"The Canadian Patrol Submarine Project will safeguard Canada's sovereignty and strengthen partnerships with our allies by delivering next-generation submarines to the Royal Canadian Navy. The advanced submarines will give our Navy the confidence and capabilities to respond effectively to emerging threats, while creating opportunities for Canadian industry. Identifying TKMS and Hanwha as the qualified suppliers marks an important step toward the procurement of this critical capability."
The Honourable Stephen Fuhr
Secretary of State (Defence Procurement)

"Today, Canada takes another step toward acquiring next-generation submarines for the Royal Canadian Navy. This is about defending our sovereignty, protecting Canadians, and ensuring our Armed Forces have the tools they need. Through the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project, we are strengthening alliances, diversifying defence partnerships, and creating opportunities for Canadian industry."
The Honourable David J. McGuinty
Minister of National Defence

"Canada is acquiring Canadian Patrol Submarines to build our sovereign capabilities. In addition to meeting the standard requirements of the Industrial and Technological Benefits Policy, all this work will be done to further Canada's objective of maximizing economic benefits under the forthcoming Defence Industrial Strategy. This generational project will strengthen our economy, create well-paying jobs and build a more secure, resilient Canada."
The Honourable Mélanie Joly
Minister of Industry and Minister responsible for Canada Economic Development for Quebec Regions

Quick facts:

The Victoria-class submarines currently in use by the Royal Canadian Navy were purchased used from the Royal Navy (United Kingdom) in 1998. The first 3 Victoria-class submarines were accepted into service in the Royal Canadian Navy between 2000 and 2003. The fourth submarine suffered a fire in transit to Canada in 2004, which delayed its acceptance into Royal Canadian Navy service until 2015.
The Royal Canadian Navy's current submarine fleet will remain operational into the mid-to-late 2030s. To ensure a smooth transition between classes without a capability gap, the Royal Canadian Navy requires its first new submarine to be delivered by the mid-2030s.
Submarines are a key element of a balanced fleet that enables the Royal Canadian Navy to project power responsively and effectively far from Canada's shores, with the inherent flexibility and staying power required to succeed across a broad mission set.
The CPSP was established in 2021 to inform timely governmental decision-making about a potential replacement class of submarines and avoid any gap in Canadian submarine capabilities. The intention of the project is to acquire up to 12 submarines for the Royal Canadian Navy.
Public Services and Procurement Canada issued a Request for Information (RFI) for the CPSP that was open from September 2024 to February 2025. The RFI sought input from industry on topics such as capabilities, in-service support, training and infrastructure for the new submarine fleet, and how partnerships with Canadian industry could be leveraged to create economic benefits in Canada throughout the lifecycle of the fleet.
The 25 RFI responses received provided the Government of Canada with valuable insights into the best approach to achieve delivery of the CPSP with the urgency required. 
Naval News comments:

During Combined Naval Event held in May 2025, Commodre Jason Armstrong, Director General Naval Force Development, confirmed that five submarine builders were involved in discussions at the time:

- France's Naval Group
- Germany's TKMS
- Republic of Korea with Hanwha Ocean (supported by HHI)
- Spain's Navantia
- Sweden's Saab

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/08/canada-down-selects-two-shipbuilders-for-future-canadian-patrol-submarine-project/

Commodre Armstrong also explained the requirements of the Royal Canadian Navy and the roadmap for the CPSP in this video:

Was te verwachten, Canada wil van de plank kopen.

[Harald]

wat !!!    
Duitsland en Zuid Korea !

Canada down selects two shipbuilders for future Canadian Patrol Submarine Project

The Government of Canada has announced that it has shortlisted two major shipbuilders to continue the procurement process for Canada's future patrol submarine project (CPSP), which will replace the current fleet of Victoria-class submarines.

Government of Canada press release

Through Canada's defence policy, Our North, Strong and Free, the Government of Canada is providing members of the Royal Canadian Navy with the equipment they need to keep Canadians safe and maintain current and future operational readiness. Canada has the longest coastline in the world, and it is essential that the Royal Canadian Navy be equipped with superior underwater surveillance capability to protect our country's security and Arctic sovereignty.

The Royal Canadian Navy requires a new submarine fleet that will be deployable in the Arctic with extended range and endurance that will provide stealth, persistence and lethality as key capabilities. The future Canadian Patrol Submarine will employ a unique combination of these attributes to ensure that Canada can detect, track, deter and, if necessary, defeat adversaries in all 3 of Canada's oceans. It will enable the Government of Canada to contribute to international security through deployments alongside allies and partners, while creating opportunities to strengthen Canada's defence and marine sectors.

Today, the Honourable Joël Lightbound, Minister of Government Transformation, Public Works and Procurement, and the Honourable Stephen Fuhr, Secretary of State (Defence Procurement), announced that the Government of Canada has identified German company Thyssen Krupp Marine Systems (TKMS) and Korean company Hanwha Ocean Co., Ltd. (Hanwha) as the 2 qualified suppliers for the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP).

This decision was informed by a thorough assessment of Canada's requirements for the CPSP, including construction and delivery timelines for the new submarine fleet. Canada also engaged with other governments and militaries to exchange lessons learned and to gain insights into their respective submarine acquisitions, infrastructure and sustainment programs.

As the current global environment continues to evolve, the CPSP is an opportunity to diversify Canada's defence partnerships and collaborate with allies and partners, while creating long-term opportunities for Canada's marine and defence industries. The identification of qualified suppliers is a critical milestone for the CPSP. It is a positive signal that the Government of Canada is taking the necessary steps to provide members of the Royal Canadian Navy with the equipment they need, and that it is prepared to move quickly and decisively to ensure delivery of the first Canadian Patrol Submarine no later than 2035.

As part of the next steps, Canada will conduct in-depth engagements with the 2 qualified suppliers to continue to advance the procurement process.

The Government of Canada remains committed to engaging Canadian industry and creating high-paying jobs at home through the CPSP. As such, Canada intends to leverage work on the submarines to generate economic benefits for Canada's marine and defence industry throughout the fleet's operational life.

"Diversifying our trade partnerships is crucial to ensuring Canada meets the moment as global circumstances evolve. The Canadian Patrol Submarine Project, in collaboration with TKMS and Hanwha as the 2 qualified suppliers, is an opportunity to work with allies and strengthen our defence industrial capacity. This is a critical step toward equipping the Royal Canadian Navy with next-generation capabilities our Navy needs to protect our sovereignty and support our allies."
The Honourable Joël Lightbound
Minister of Government Transformation, Public Works and Procurement

"The Canadian Patrol Submarine Project will safeguard Canada's sovereignty and strengthen partnerships with our allies by delivering next-generation submarines to the Royal Canadian Navy. The advanced submarines will give our Navy the confidence and capabilities to respond effectively to emerging threats, while creating opportunities for Canadian industry. Identifying TKMS and Hanwha as the qualified suppliers marks an important step toward the procurement of this critical capability."
The Honourable Stephen Fuhr
Secretary of State (Defence Procurement)

"Today, Canada takes another step toward acquiring next-generation submarines for the Royal Canadian Navy. This is about defending our sovereignty, protecting Canadians, and ensuring our Armed Forces have the tools they need. Through the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project, we are strengthening alliances, diversifying defence partnerships, and creating opportunities for Canadian industry."
The Honourable David J. McGuinty
Minister of National Defence

"Canada is acquiring Canadian Patrol Submarines to build our sovereign capabilities. In addition to meeting the standard requirements of the Industrial and Technological Benefits Policy, all this work will be done to further Canada's objective of maximizing economic benefits under the forthcoming Defence Industrial Strategy. This generational project will strengthen our economy, create well-paying jobs and build a more secure, resilient Canada."
The Honourable Mélanie Joly
Minister of Industry and Minister responsible for Canada Economic Development for Quebec Regions

Quick facts:

The Victoria-class submarines currently in use by the Royal Canadian Navy were purchased used from the Royal Navy (United Kingdom) in 1998. The first 3 Victoria-class submarines were accepted into service in the Royal Canadian Navy between 2000 and 2003. The fourth submarine suffered a fire in transit to Canada in 2004, which delayed its acceptance into Royal Canadian Navy service until 2015.
The Royal Canadian Navy's current submarine fleet will remain operational into the mid-to-late 2030s. To ensure a smooth transition between classes without a capability gap, the Royal Canadian Navy requires its first new submarine to be delivered by the mid-2030s.
Submarines are a key element of a balanced fleet that enables the Royal Canadian Navy to project power responsively and effectively far from Canada's shores, with the inherent flexibility and staying power required to succeed across a broad mission set.
The CPSP was established in 2021 to inform timely governmental decision-making about a potential replacement class of submarines and avoid any gap in Canadian submarine capabilities. The intention of the project is to acquire up to 12 submarines for the Royal Canadian Navy.
Public Services and Procurement Canada issued a Request for Information (RFI) for the CPSP that was open from September 2024 to February 2025. The RFI sought input from industry on topics such as capabilities, in-service support, training and infrastructure for the new submarine fleet, and how partnerships with Canadian industry could be leveraged to create economic benefits in Canada throughout the lifecycle of the fleet.
The 25 RFI responses received provided the Government of Canada with valuable insights into the best approach to achieve delivery of the CPSP with the urgency required. 
Naval News comments:

During Combined Naval Event held in May 2025, Commodre Jason Armstrong, Director General Naval Force Development, confirmed that five submarine builders were involved in discussions at the time:

- France's Naval Group
- Germany's TKMS
- Republic of Korea with Hanwha Ocean (supported by HHI)
- Spain's Navantia
- Sweden's Saab

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/08/canada-down-selects-two-shipbuilders-for-future-canadian-patrol-submarine-project/

Commodre Armstrong also explained the requirements of the Royal Canadian Navy and the roadmap for the CPSP in this video:

[Harald]

Germany Develops First Submarine-Launched Surface Drone for Silent Recon and Strike Roles

According to information published by the German Naval Company Gabler, on August 20, 2025, a partnership has been concluded with the maritime robotics company FLANQ to co-develop a new generation of submarine-launched uncrewed surface vehicles (USVs). The announcement, made at DALO Industry Days 2025 in Ballerup, Denmark, underscores a major evolution in subsea warfare capabilities with the goal of transforming standard submarine torpedo tubes into launch platforms for autonomous surface systems.

The platform under development is based on a modular architecture that fits within the NATO-standard 533mm torpedo tube form factor. The vehicle will feature a folding control fin and mast structure to allow compact storage and launch, expanding once on the surface. Both the expendable and recoverable variants will use the same hydrodynamic hull, approximately 5 to 6 meters in length, with a displacement under 800 kilograms. The platform is expected to have a surface range exceeding 200 nautical miles and an operational endurance of up to 36 hours for the ISR configuration. Navigation will be enabled by an autonomous mission system with GPS-denied capability through inertial navigation and AI-driven situational awareness. Communication options include surface-to-air datalinks, satellite relay, and burst underwater acoustics for limited submarine interface. Payload capacity will vary by mission but early prototypes are reported to support modular bays for electro-optical infrared sensors, electronic warfare suites, lightweight loitering munitions, or decoy systems.

This submarine-compatible USV concept is highly relevant to a number of NATO and allied navies seeking to upgrade the mission flexibility of their existing diesel-electric and nuclear submarine fleets. The German Navy, a likely early adopter, operates the Type 212A and new 212CD submarines, both featuring modern combat systems well suited to integrating such modular payloads. Other potential customers include the Royal Netherlands Navy, which is pursuing future submarine options with enhanced multi-mission capability, as well as Norway, Italy, and South Korea, all of which field torpedo-tube-equipped submarines and have shown interest in autonomous force multipliers. For navies with limited budgets or constrained acquisition cycles, the Gabler-FLANQ system offers a cost-effective upgrade path without needing to modify the submarine hull or invest in dedicated USV support ships.

Submarine-launched USVs can be deployed from underwater and remain undetected while surfacing to perform missions in forward or denied areas. For ISR missions, they extend the sensor reach of submarines by hundreds of nautical miles without compromising their stealth posture. In strike configurations, expendable USVs can deliver stand-off effects such as launching loitering munitions, jamming enemy radar, or simulating naval signatures without exposing manned platforms. This drastically changes the risk equation in contested littoral zones, allowing submarines to shape the battlespace before revealing their presence. Moreover, in hybrid warfare or peacetime reconnaissance scenarios, uncrewed assets can collect intelligence or conduct influence operations with plausible deniability, offering policymakers more flexibility in the escalation ladder.

Gabler will lead systems integration, mechanical interfacing, and delivery, leveraging decades of experience in submarine mast and launch system design. FLANQ, for its part, will oversee design engineering, AI-enabled autonomy, and payload integration. A full-scale prototype is already under assembly with initial sea trials scheduled for mid-2026. The partners aim to showcase the system during NATO's 2026 Joint Warrior exercise, potentially marking the first-ever torpedo tube-launched USV demonstration in an allied operational scenario.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/navy-news/2025/germany-introduces-first-submarine-launched-usv-for-silent-recon-and-strike-roles

[Kornet43]

Duitsland stopt export van wapens naar Israël die worden gebruikt in Gaza https://www.nu.nl/midden-oostenconflict/6365050/duitsland-stopt-export-van-wapens-naar-israel-die-worden-gebruikt-in-gaza.html

Oeiiii en die leveringen van die onderzeeboten dan ?? De "Dakar" klasse, de INS Drakon is net aan het proefvaren.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DM1TRRssd3Z/

Die zullen wel een uitzondering krijgen, erst kommt das fressen, dan die Moral.

[Harald]

Duitsland stopt export van wapens naar Israël die worden gebruikt in Gaza https://www.nu.nl/midden-oostenconflict/6365050/duitsland-stopt-export-van-wapens-naar-israel-die-worden-gebruikt-in-gaza.html

Oeiiii en die leveringen van die onderzeeboten dan ?? De "Dakar" klasse, de INS Drakon is net aan het proefvaren.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DM1TRRssd3Z/

[Parera]

Interessante ontwikkeling voor de Walrus en/of Orka klasses.

REMUS 620 Validated for Torpedo Tube Deployment


A joint team from HII, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI), and U.S. Navy's Naval Undersea Warfare Center Division Newport (NUWCDIVNPT) recently completed a major milestone in advancing the U.S. Navy Submarine Force's initiative to launch and recover autonomous undersea vehicles from submarine torpedo tubes.
HII press release

A test by the joint team confirmed the compatibility of the REMUS 620 with the SAFECAP, Virginia-class submarine weapons handling and torpedo tube systems, and other critical interfaces.

"This clears the way for continued testing in advance of an in-water end-to-end launch and recovery at a U.S. Navy test fixture facility later this summer," said Adrian Gonsalves, HII's REMUS 620 product lead.

Rick Thornton, NUWCDIVNPT Code 459, stated, "Our team appreciated the early coordination with HII and WHOI. The REMUS 620 team arrived ready to go, and all events were executed safely and efficiently with good information exchange throughout. Much appreciate the full test team for its efforts."

HII's next-generation medium uncrewed underwater vehicle (MUUV) fitted with WHOI's Yellow Moray docking technology, successfully completed a full end-to-end dry checkout of the Autonomous Underwater Vehicle/Shock and Fire Enclosure Capsule (AUV/SAFECAP) "All-Up Round" (AUR) in the Virginia-class Cradle Payload Integration Facility (VCCPIF) and its Mk71 torpedo tube. This follows USS Delaware (SSN 791), built by HII, successfully completing the first-ever forward-deployed launch and recovery of a UUV via submarine torpedo tube with the Yellow Moray equipped REMUS 600 UUV.

– End –

HII is expanding the U.S. Navy's undersea dominance and range with state-of-the-art REMUS technology and delivery.

About the REMUS UUV
The REMUS UUV family delivers critical advantages across modern naval operations and the autonomous systems have been proven to operate independently or in conjunction with crewed platforms — such as Virginia-class nuclear submarines — to extend mission range, reduce detection risk, and limit personnel exposure.

The REMUS open-architecture design allows rapid payload integration, enabling mission-specific configurations and future tech insertions — key factors in maintaining operational relevance and cost efficiency over time.

To date, HII has sold more than 700 REMUS vehicles to over 30 countries, including 14 NATO members. Notably, over 90% of REMUS units delivered in the past 23 years remain in service, demonstrating platform durability and lifecycle value — both critical in defense acquisition decision-making.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/07/remus-620-validated-for-torpedo-tube-deployment/

[Parera]

Australia and UK ink Nuclear-Powered Submarine Partnership and Collaboration Treaty

UK and Australia have inked the bilateral Nuclear-Powered Submarine Partnership and Collaboration Treaty (the Geelong Treaty) on 26 July 2025. The treaty calls for cooperation on design, build, operation, sustainment, and disposal of SSN-AUKUS submarines.

UK MoD press release

On 26 July 2025 in Geelong, Australia, the Honourable Richard Marles MP, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Defence, Australia and the Right Honourable John Healey MP, Secretary of State for Defence, United Kingdom (UK) signed the bilateral Nuclear-Powered Submarine Partnership and Collaboration Treaty (the Geelong Treaty) at the UK-Australia Defence Ministers' Meeting in Geelong, Victoria. The Geelong Treaty is a historic agreement, the commitment for the next 50 years of UK-Australian bilateral defence cooperation under AUKUS Pillar I.

The Geelong Treaty will enable comprehensive cooperation on the design, build, operation, sustainment, and disposal of our SSN-AUKUS submarines. It will support the development of the personnel, workforce, infrastructure and regulatory systems required for Australia's SSN-AUKUS programme, as well as support port visits and the rotational presence of a UK Astute-class submarine at HMAS Stirling under Submarine Rotational Force – West.

The Treaty builds on the strong foundation of trilateral cooperation between Australia, the UK and the United States, advancing the shared objectives of the AUKUS partnership. It will enable the development of SSN-AUKUS and resilient trilateral supply chains.

Importantly, the Geelong Treaty is consistent with Australia's and the UK's respective international nuclear non-proliferation obligations, including under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, the South Pacific Nuclear Free Zone Treaty and its Protocols, and Australia's safeguards agreements with the International Atomic Energy Agency, and the trilateral AUKUS Naval Nuclear Propulsion Agreement (ANNPA).

Together with the ANNPA, the Treaty will enable Australia and the UK to deliver a cutting-edge undersea capability through the SSN-AUKUS programme, and in doing so, support stability and security in the Euro Atlantic and the Indo-Pacific for decades to come, drive defence as an engine for growth across our two nations, create thousands of jobs, build our respective submarine industrial bases and supply chains, and provide new opportunities for industry partners.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/07/australia-and-uk-ink-nuclear-powered-submarine-partnership-and-collaboration-treaty/

[Benji87]

We hebben het over verschillende zaken.

Ik heb het over het marktwerkingsprincipe van imago en reputatie, en de bindende voorsprong en tegenwerking die hieruit ontstaat. Jij focust je op Tuinman en huidige concrete industriele beperkingen.

Ik laat de discussie van de misplaatste quote van voormalig STASDEF Van der Maat (VVD) even voor wat het is. Dit soort uitspraken zijn in inderdaad niet handig maar ik mag er vanuit gaan dat een bewindspersoon vrijuit kan spreken als hij de kamer informeert. Dat Nevesbu dan vervolgens besluit om de media op te zoeken en verkeert citeert ondermijnt onze positie internationaal meer dan dat het ten goede komt

Maar ook jou spoor is niet goed. We kunnen in Nederland nu geen ruimtestations bouwen. Er zijn namelijk geen ruimtestation fabrieken.

 Dat betekent niet dat we geen ruimtestation kunnen bouwen. Hetzelfde gaat op voor een onderzeeër. Als je dat wil kun je dat.

Wat betreft de Nederlandse maak industrie en onze capaciteit om een onderzeeër te bouwen zou het in theorie allemaal wellicht wel lukken maar praktisch gezien is dit nooit een optie geweest. Anders hadden IHC, Damen, Nevesbu etc etc ook wel de handen in elkaar kunnen slaan en tot een gezamenlijk initiatief kunnen komen. Dat is echter nooit ter sprake komen. Het Damen voorstel kwam ook niet zo ver. Ook daar zouden 2 subs in het buitenland mee worden gebouwd.

Daarnaast zijn alle 3 de voorstellen gebaseerd op bestaande ontwerpen. Als wij vanaf de (Nederlandse) bodem een onderzeeër hadden willen ontwerpen, zou dat gigantisch duur zijn geweest. Je moet R&D kosten zelf aftikken, hebt te maken het land met de hoogste salaris kosten ter wereld en zal sommige kennis ook uit het buitenland moeten verwerven. Dus kan het? Ja maar is het logisch? Nee absoluut niet. Je kan dan nooit voor een fatsoenlijke prijs schepen leveren. Binnen de plenaire vergaderingen maakt Van der Maat dat ook goed duidelijk. Hij is van mening dat Nederland zich beter kan focussen op het ontwikkelen van de bouw industrie van oppervlakte schepen.

Het zal moeten blijken of we nu duurder of goedkoper uit zullen zijn met Franse subs.

Ik durf dat wel te stellen:
100% nl Sub van Nederlandse bodem (fictief) vs orka klasse: orka klasse is dan goedkoper om bovenstaande redenen

Orka klasse vs Damen/Saab: zeer waarschijnlijk ga je hier op langere termijn de prijs wel voor betalen bij de Fransen. Ik heb het rapport van de Belgen gelezen over CAMO en daarin werd een aardig tipje van de sluier zichtbaar die werken met de Fransen met zich meebrengt